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  1. #11
    WALMART
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    Inferior Fe, hmmm...


    I'm not overly defensive about me being a dick. I'm usually the first to admit I don't have much a sense of right and wrong, socially.

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    i like what beebe said about inferior function/complex thing. however, inferiority complex is bit more complicated and should not be viewed strictly with inferior function. also i think tert in some cases would have something to do with it. but inferiority complex isnt strictly based on inferior function. i like what marie von franz said about inferior function being the gateway to the unconscious, it makes sense, because inferior is the least differentiated function and thus is most influenced by the other stuff in the unconscious, since undifferentiated functions have large portion of them connected to complexes in personal unconscious(as differentiation means removing from unconscious complexes to conscious control/dictation of the ego).

    feelings of inferiority in general come from any sort of feelings of inferiority, not just the functions that you are not developed with. and its the feeling of inferiority in general that makes up inferiority complex.
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  3. #13
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    The way it was explained to me, the feelings ("emotionally freighted images") of the function reach consciousness by way of the complex, rather than the other way around. Still, I imagine that a situation calling for that function might tend trigger the complex as well. Depending on the situation, at least.
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  4. #14
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I hate multiple choices and avenues. If offered too many I get extremely scattered.

    I enjoy it set one way with not much wiggle movement. Otherwise I end up assuming the worst possible outcome for any new idea.

    Even though the idea itself may be sound. It is completely irrational and requires the suppression of the anxiety so as not to damper ideas that are legitimate. As well as the checking of judgement so that it is turned on the self not others, while being tempered by perception.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

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    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The way it was explained to me, the feelings ("emotionally freighted images") of the function reach consciousness by way of the complex, rather than the other way around. Still, I imagine that a situation calling for that function might tend trigger the complex as well. Depending on the situation, at least.
    yea, complex is defined by "feeling toned associations around a common theme", i dont think there has to be emotion involved, even tho emotions often arise from strong activation of complexes, also it depends on what sort of complex is at hand whether emotion arises or not.

    also, to everything in your consciousness comes from complexes, without complex there wouldnt be any making sense of anything. for example money without complex would just be a piece of paper of metal and without paper complex there would only be sensation of what that thing is which people call paper or metal. like jung said that ego is the top of the iceberg, complexes(which are the structures of personal unconscious) are in the middle and have their roots in collective unconscious(every complex has some ties to an archetype), which is at the bottom. functions are sort of the ways to deal with complexes and other stuff(like sensations) and functions that are in the control of ego, have their roots in complexes and sort of arise from them. so yea i agree with that feelings(im assuming that you mean the intensity of the function, which makes it to be determining factor or to be ignored) reach consciousness by the way of complex.
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  6. #16
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    The emotions, as explained to me, come from the limbic system, and the functions represent different ways of building neurological connections from the frontal cortex back to the limbic area. So when I say "emotions", I don't mean anything specifying the Feeling function or anything like that; I just mean general emotions that all limbic creatures have.
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  7. #17
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    In the common way "inferiority complex" is understood in the English language, I don't think this is a good way of characterizing a manifestation of the inferior, whether in the grip or not.

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The emotions, as explained to me, come from the limbic system, and the functions represent different ways of building neurological connections from the frontal cortex back to the limbic area. So when I say "emotions", I don't mean anything specifying the Feeling function or anything like that; I just mean general emotions that all limbic creatures have.
    limbic system does other things than just emotions, its a system of areas with very different functions. amygdala(Amygdala:[3][4][5] Involved in signaling the cortex of motivationally significant stimuli.. - wiki) is the main thing that is involved with creating emotions, and while being part of the limbic system, its also part of temporal lobe(or more precisely is located deep in medial temporal lobe) and has connections to many different areas, which can activate it(and which it obviously needs to be activated).
    limbic system is where consciousness is formed and it gets impulses from pretty much all over the brains. basically everything that reaches limbic system(or conscious forming parts of it) from sensory systems or other parts of the brains is differentiated enough to make sense to the conscious mind and what other parts of the brains see as irrelevant are weeded out.

    prefrontal cortex also has to do with conscious decision making. i dont really buy this "functions represent different ways of building neurological connections from the frontal cortex back to the limbic area", there are other areas involved in it than just frontal cortex, for example Fe seems to be on temporal lobe(nardis work suggest its on the left hemisphere). however, in order to consciously use Fe, it needs to be used with prefrontal cortex. this is also one thing where i think people mistakenly think the 8 function model is true, because everyone has this area that is involved with social cues etc, but if you dont use it in combination with prefrontal lobes, its not used as a way for decision making, and Fe after all is a decision making function, it basically stops being a rational function(jungs term) and is just one part of perception(irrational function). to be more precise, one aspect of intuition(even jung said that intuition is a peculiar function, because it can basically do the things that other functions would otherwise do, or something like that), as it is perceived through other stuff in the unconscious unconscious, since it doesent connect to conscious decisions making, but is just one part of that pile of the unconscious.

    sensation would be a good example of a function that doesent undergo the route from sensory cortexes to frontal lobes and there to limbic system, its basically just when .
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  9. #19
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    In the common way "inferiority complex" is understood in the English language, I don't think this is a good way of characterizing a manifestation of the inferior, whether in the grip or not.
    yea, but that sort of terms gets basically misunderstood(or not understood properly) by the general public to a large degree, so when you hear some random high school kid(or even most adults) saying "inferiority complex", their definition of it is pretty crappy, so they basically misuse the term and most people misuse the term, so how people use the term in general speech is irrelevant to the actual meaning of the term(as used by beebe for example)
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    limbic system does other things than just emotions, its a system of areas with very different functions. amygdala(Amygdala:[3][4][5] Involved in signaling the cortex of motivationally significant stimuli.. - wiki) is the main thing that is involved with creating emotions, and while being part of the limbic system, its also part of temporal lobe(or more precisely is located deep in medial temporal lobe) and has connections to many different areas, which can activate it(and which it obviously needs to be activated).
    limbic system is where consciousness is formed and it gets impulses from pretty much all over the brains. basically everything that reaches limbic system(or conscious forming parts of it) from sensory systems or other parts of the brains is differentiated enough to make sense to the conscious mind and what other parts of the brains see as irrelevant are weeded out.

    prefrontal cortex also has to do with conscious decision making. i dont really buy this "functions represent different ways of building neurological connections from the frontal cortex back to the limbic area", there are other areas involved in it than just frontal cortex, for example Fe seems to be on temporal lobe(nardis work suggest its on the left hemisphere). however, in order to consciously use Fe, it needs to be used with prefrontal cortex. this is also one thing where i think people mistakenly think the 8 function model is true, because everyone has this area that is involved with social cues etc, but if you dont use it in combination with prefrontal lobes, its not used as a way for decision making, and Fe after all is a decision making function, it basically stops being a rational function(jungs term) and is just one part of perception(irrational function). to be more precise, one aspect of intuition(even jung said that intuition is a peculiar function, because it can basically do the things that other functions would otherwise do, or something like that), as it is perceived through other stuff in the unconscious unconscious, since it doesent connect to conscious decisions making, but is just one part of that pile of the unconscious.

    sensation would be a good example of a function that doesent undergo the route from sensory cortexes to frontal lobes and there to limbic system, its basically just when .
    I didnt say the limbic system was only about the emotions, or that there were no other areas involved.
    Still, what you say sounds like it basically agrees with what I had been told. It's about when the functions are consciously used; otherwise, they remain mixed up together, in "undifferentiated" form, with the other functions. (Hence, Fe ceasing to a "rational" function in that form).
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