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  1. #71
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GranChi View Post
    I see what you mean. But I think of melancholics as philosophical and reflective, and even if they aren't always, they're usually described as "analytical" - which I think suggests intuition over sensing. If I'm wrong about them being emotional, could the pure melancholic type perhaps be INTJ?
    As for phlegmatic, it's hard. Phlegmatics are supposed to be observant, so I would think they'd be S. I guess ISFP could work, although that type is known for being artistic, which isn't a quality that's generally ascribed to phlegmatics.
    It's surprising how much harder this is for the introverted temperaments than for the extroverted ones. It seems like we can both agree that I and J go with melancholic and I and P go with phlegmatic, though.
    The "philosophical and reflective and analytical" is from the Thinking. They still tend to be more observant and concrete in focus.
    INTJ would be Melancholy Choleric (the Choleric is what adds the N).

    A Phlegmatic's "observation" (which is described in the APS) is basically their "ambiversion". They are slow to either express, or avoid, so they observe, and again, can "take 'em or leave 'em".
    ISFP would be Phlegmatic Sanguine (The Sanguine is what adds the S).

    In all cases, the second temperament, the conative (Keirseyan) one, is what connects with S/N. The first temperament (social or Interaction Style) is "blind" to S/N.
    The pure Phlegmatic, again, might seem to be inbetween in all the factors, but would likely edge out in favor of INFP. Or, hypothetically, it could be any type, but the basic descriptions seem to be compatible with INP and NF.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  2. #72
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    What's the APS? I read about the four temperaments at the page on Fig Hunter and a few other places.

  3. #73
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Arno Profile System; a specialized version of FIRO-B, mapping the temperaments to the FIRO's system, in which it was determined Phlegmatic was moderate, so there was a fifth temperament that was truly reserved and totally people-focused. http://www.temperaments.info/Free-Te...nt-Reports.htm

    The Fig Hunter page (which is really good) is based on the version of the theory Tim LaHaye repopularized, which has four "pure" temperaments, plus twelve "blends" of the four. These are what I've linked to the 16 types through Keirsey's groups + Interaction Styles, and will likely correspond to two of the three FIRO/APS areas of temperament. (It actually works out that way for a lot of people).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  4. #74
    Senior Member madhatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The Fig Hunter page (which is really good) is based on the version of the theory Tim LaHaye repopularized, which has four "pure" temperaments, plus twelve "blends" of the four. These are what I've linked to the 16 types through Keirsey's groups + Interaction Styles, and will likely correspond to two of the three FIRO/APS areas of temperament. (It actually works out that way for a lot of people).
    Melancholic/Sanguine on the Fig Hunter page is what describes me the best, which matches what you say ISTPs are.

  5. #75
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    That's interesting, because I also thought Melancholic/Sanguine fit me, but I'm INFP. I have most of the melancholic qualities described (philosophical thinker, intellectual, appreciates beauty, analytical tendencies, etc.), but unlike a pure melancholic, I do want to interact with people. I thought melancholic types would generally be N because that's the more reflective and analytical function, but I guess I'm outnumbered about that.

  6. #76
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    @GranChi Do you think you could be this: http://www.temperaments.info/Tempera...-inclusion.htm
    This is a newly discovered temperament (not included in most of those quizzes) that basically "expresses as a Melancholy (i.e. introvert), and responds as a Sanguine" (people-focused, wants to interact), so it makes sense that of the other four temperaments, you would come out Melancholic and Sanguine.

    Reflective and analytical are more I traits than particularly N. The purest Melancholic is ISTJ, and they get the "philosophical" part from Si+Te (practical logical principles from learned facts; and inferior Ne will come into play, when it develops), and the appreciation of beauty is tertiary Fi.
    INTJ and INFJ will also be Melancholic on the surface (Interaction Style; same as IST), so that also could have shaped that image of the Melancholic, but those types have other temperaments mixed in.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  7. #77
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    Yes, actually, that does sound like me. I've heard about supine before, but usually as a temperament of people who feel a need to serve others and are followers by nature. That's not what I'm like, but the description you linked me to was closer to my personality. This website seems different from the four temperaments concept as I've learned about it, though - it's more focused on social tendencies and desires. (The website, I mean.)

  8. #78
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    The theory used by that site is much more indepth, and those descriptions are only two general aspects of the temperament, from being low expressive and high responsive.

    Now which of these do you most identify with: (the one before was the social area, this is the "leadership" area):
    http://www.temperaments.info/Tempera...ne-control.htm
    http://www.temperaments.info/Tempera...ic-control.htm
    http://www.temperaments.info/Tempera...ic-control.htm
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    If you go with something like the LaHaye's system, I'd say the correlations are something like:
    EXXP=Sanguine
    EXXJ=Choleric
    IXXP=Phlegmatic
    IXXJ=Melancholic

    Edit: For a secondary pref, there's a correlation between T and Choleric and F and Sanguine. I don't think you can go much further than that.
    This sounds a lot more accurate than NF=choleric and whatnot. I am INFP, predominantly phleggy, then somewhat melly and just a little sanguine with no choleric at all. I can also match up my family and friends with this quite accurately.

    Dad, ENFP, sanguine and a little choleric
    Mom, INFJ, melancholic
    Friend, ISFJ, melancholic with a little choleric
    Sister, ESTJ, choleric
    Brother, INFJ, melancholic half phlegmatic
    Sister, ESFJ, half sanguine half choleric
    Sister, ENTP, sanguine

    I'm not matching them according to your chart, they've been tested and these are the results.
    "I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." -Albert Einstein

  10. #80
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    That sounds right, Velvet Rose. I'm an INFP too, and I think I'm mostly melancholic with some phlegmatic or sanguine. It's hard to tell, because I've noticed different descriptions of the two introverted temperaments aren't totally consistent on the difference between the two. I've been thinking IS = phlegmatic and IN = melancholic - I just read about ISFJ and thought it sounded the closest to phlegmatic (calm, peaceful, helpful, observant, dependable, like stability) - but others don't agree, and honestly it's hard to tell. I've noticed different descriptions of the two introverted temperaments aren't totally consistent on the difference between the two. You seem to know a lot about the temperaments, so I'm wondering, how would you exactly describe the difference between phlegmatic and melancholic?
    And I guess I might as well do a quick little match-up too, although the temperaments are just based on my perception:
    Mom - ESTJ, choleric
    Dad - ESFJ, sanguine with a little choleric and a little phlegmatic
    Friend - INFP, phlegmatic with a little melancholic
    Last edited by GranChi; 04-15-2013 at 03:15 PM.

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