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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    An SJ is a phlegmatic sanguine or a sanguine phlegmatic. Always and for ever.
    That's impossible. I don't see how an ISTJ could be sanguine. Personally, as I've said before, I'm just the opposite - melancholy phlegmatic. And I find most Sanguines (or at least the "type" itself) to be very annoying.

    Choleric and melancholic come close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.

    Sanguine and phlegmatic some close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.
    Can you explain this some? What exactly do you mean?
    By the way, I'm the girl in the picture, lol.... happily married though, so don't even...

  2. #22
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat
    Do you learn astronomy by studying astronomy? To an extent.
    In the end, it is all about particle physics.
    Do you learn the MBTI by studying the MBTI?
    Open the windows.

    In every function combination there is a rational and a non rational component.

    The ESTJ is not a choleric. Never. An SJ is a phlegmatic sanguine or a sanguine phlegmatic. Always and for ever.

    Choleric and melancholic come close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.

    Sanguine and phlegmatic some close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.

    Study Fred. Learn from him.

    He is modest. He is polite. He is humble. He is a light in the neural darkness.

    It could be we are using different definitions for the same term. In the most basic sense I think of the four humors this way.

    Sanguine = Happy
    Choleric = Angry
    Phlegmatic = Calm
    Melancholic = Sad

    Of these four adjectives, calm does not describe the ESTJ. It very well describes the IxTP. Angry on the other hand does describe the ESTJ, much more than most other types.
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  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    It could be we are using different definitions for the same term. In the most basic sense I think of the four humors this way.

    Sanguine = Happy
    Choleric = Angry
    Phlegmatic = Calm
    Melancholic = Sad
    I think of it more as melancholy-sanguine being a basic scale of sad to happy as you said and phlegmatic-choleric being a scale of laid-back/lazy to bossy and obsessed with accomplishing things or whatnot.
    By the way, I'm the girl in the picture, lol.... happily married though, so don't even...

  4. #24
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomedbyFire View Post
    That's impossible. I don't see how an ISTJ could be sanguine. Personally, as I've said before, I'm just the opposite - melancholy phlegmatic. And I find most Sanguines (or at least the "type" itself) to be very annoying.



    Can you explain this some? What exactly do you mean?
    Then it may be that you are not exactly an ISTJ.
    More like an IXTJ I should think.
    Also the fact that you write in here makes it all the more likely.
    You are not a butterfly yet. You are a butterfly on the make?

    About the other stuff I come back later. I do not yet know how to put the thing into words. Clumsy of me.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Then it may be that you are not exactly an ISTJ.
    More like an IXTJ I should think.
    Also the fact that you write in here makes it all the more likely.
    You are not a butterfly yet. You are a butterfly on the make?

    About the other stuff I come back later. I do not yet know how to put the thing into words. Clumsy of me.
    I am one who doesn't talk much but thinks alot... finds conversations like these interesting... I don't know. Just 'cause I write on here alot... it's different... This has always been my preferred method of communication...
    By the way, I'm the girl in the picture, lol.... happily married though, so don't even...

  6. #26
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    It could be we are using different definitions for the same term. In the most basic sense I think of the four humors this way.

    Sanguine = Happy
    Choleric = Angry
    Phlegmatic = Calm
    Melancholic = Sad

    Of these four adjectives, calm does not describe the ESTJ. It very well describes the IxTP. Angry on the other hand does describe the ESTJ, much more than most other types.
    Exactly.
    And here is the crux.
    The ESTJ appears angry only because he is not of a choleric temperament. He vents his spleen on a regular basis. Therefore his is never loaded up by anger.

    The choleric, on the other hand is terrifying when he gets mad.
    And the melancholic is even madder when the eruption finally takes place.

    We cholerics and melancholics express a nasty streak.
    Not often, though.

  7. #27
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomedbyFire View Post
    I think of it more as melancholy-sanguine being a basic scale of sad to happy as you said and phlegmatic-choleric being a scale of laid-back/lazy to bossy and obsessed with accomplishing things or whatnot.
    A sound estimation.
    You grasp the basics.

    It is very simple. There is the continuum A and the continuum B.
    The axis X and the axis Y.

    And the rest is a child's play. Add a third dimension and you get the temperaments and the sixteen types.

    You can figure it out yourself.

    It is remarkably odd they do not get it.
    They hover in between the lines without marking the lines.

  8. #28
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Exactly.
    And here is the crux.
    The ESTJ appears angry only because he is not of a choleric temperament. He vents his spleen on a regular basis. Therefore his is never loaded up by anger.

    The choleric, on the other hand is terrifying when he gets mad.
    And the melancholic is even madder when the eruption finally takes place.

    We cholerics and melancholics express a nasty streak.
    Not often, though.
    See I know now that we are using different definitions. My definition is based on outward appearances and characteristics that a person displays with regular frequency. A choleric can actually be quite content on the inside even if they often appear angry. A sanguine on the other hand might often appear happy but on the inside feel alone and empty. A melancholic might appear sad outwardly, but be glad on the inside.

    The melancholic and choleric are not condemned to a miserable life any more than a phlegmatic and sanguine are predetermined to an easy life. These are simply common outward characteristics.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    See I know now that we are using different definitions. My definition is based on outward appearances and characteristics that a person displays with regular frequency. A choleric can actually be quite content on the inside even if they often appear angry. A sanguine on the other hand might often appear happy but on the inside feel alone and empty. A melancholic might appear sad outwardly, but be glad on the inside.

    The melancholic and choleric are not condemned to a miserable life any more than a phlegmatic and sanguine are predetermined to an easy life. These are simply common outward characteristics.
    Yes. In the end it all boils down to semantics. No objection there.

    Is it not strange that you and Shimpei have the same temperament.. she is an ISFJ.

    According to your definition Marilyn Monroe (INTP) was a sanguine then. Even when she pulled out the happy face everybody could see she was miserable.

    She was abused by the doctors and the politicians and finally killed. You are right. She was not exactly predetermined to an easy life.

    In my books she was a melancholeric choleric.
    In her nature = the interior part.

    The playground of psychopathology.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Sanguine: Se (xSxP or ESxx)
    Melancholic: Si (xSxJ or ISxx)
    Choleric: Ne (xNxP or ENxx)
    Phlegmatic: Ni (xNxJ or INxx)
    Okay, according to OneIshy, the temperaments are described as this:

    Sanguine: The Extrovert | The Talker | The Optimist
    Melancholic: The Introvert | The Thinker | The Pessimist
    Choleric: The Extrovert | The Doer | The Optimist
    Phlegmatic: The Introvert | The Watcher | The Pessimist

    I'd say that they do correspond to S and N functions, but only here:

    Sanguine: Ne
    Melancholic: Ni
    Choleric: Se
    Phlegmatic: Si

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