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  1. #11
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Someone might be able to break it down to, say two functions per humor, say Se/Ne for Sanguine, for instance. Unfortunately, I am not that good.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #12
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    So you guys don't really see the value in typing people according to SJ/SP/NT/NF?

    I regularly try to slot people into one of these categories, in an attempt to perceive people's biggest drives/needs.

    (For instance, this site says this and I'm sure anyone can slot the four temperaments into his "color" naming system. It's the same.)
    Core Needs and Motivations

    Falt - Appreciating Differences Temperament Descriptions
    I perhaps found this explanation of SJs most helpful in trying to understand my ISFJ mother. Even better than the ISFJ definitions. It just give me a more global perspective that's not as specific: I find the specific ones are sometimes too detailed for a broad view of where the person's coming from.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #13
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    So you guys don't really see the value in typing people according to SJ/SP/NT/NF?

    I regularly try to slot people into one of these categories, in an attempt to perceive people's biggest drives/needs.

    (For instance, this site says this and I'm sure anyone can slot the four temperaments into his "color" naming system. It's the same.)
    Core Needs and Motivations

    Falt - Appreciating Differences Temperament Descriptions
    I perhaps found this explanation of SJs most helpful in trying to understand my ISFJ mother. Even better than the ISFJ definitions. It just give me a more global perspective that's not as specific: I find the specific ones are sometimes too detailed for a broad view of where the person's coming from.
    I do, but I don't think MBTI temperaments correlate with humors temperaments particularly well.

    Blue, for instance, does not strike me as Choleric and that is what it supposedly correlates to by most systems.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #14
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    So you guys don't really see the value in typing people according to SJ/SP/NT/NF?
    The alternative, used in several attempts at taxonomy, particularly a recent one by The_Liquid_Laser, is by theoretical dominant function; giving us ESxP, IxTP, INxJ and so on.

  5. #15
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    The four temperaments also have a very diverse definition and are often made to fit the descriptions of other psychometric systems.

    Another correlation I worked out was using strictly the irrational functions, in which case I get:

    Sanguine: Se (xSxP or ESxx)
    Melancholic: Si (xSxJ or ISxx)
    Choleric: Ne (xNxP or ENxx)
    Phlegmatic: Ni (xNxJ or INxx)

    Temperament describes our core character, and that is based on how we instinctively see things. Therefore, T and F functions should be taken out of the equation, because those are functions of reason.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    Yes, there is:
    Sanguine (Blood): SP
    Choleric (Yellow bile): NF
    Melancholic (Black bile): NT
    Phlegmatic (Phlegm): SJ

    EDIT: the correlations are indeed more complicated, but this generalisation might give an image
    See, based on my type and humors, this would kinda make sense by blending the two humors (melancholy and phlegmatic) to get ISNTJ

    As for my husband (the only other person whose type I know well), it doesn't make so much sense. I'm pretty sure he's either PhlegMel or MelPhleg, but he's also an INFP. I can't see him being choleric, although I suppose other NF's could be.

    Where does everyone seem to get the correlation between NF and choleric anyway?
    By the way, I'm the girl in the picture, lol.... happily married though, so don't even...

  7. #17
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomedbyFire View Post
    See, based on my type and humors, this would kinda make sense by blending the two humors (melancholy and phlegmatic) to get ISNTJ

    As for my husband (the only other person whose type I know well), it doesn't make so much sense. I'm pretty sure he's either PhlegMel or MelPhleg, but he's also an INFP. I can't see him being choleric, although I suppose other NF's could be.

    Where does everyone seem to get the correlation between NF and choleric anyway?
    I think it's because we are very passionate about our values. We can go on idealistic crusades. But it's not the Type A kind of thing described by the LaHaye's when they talk about Cholerics.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #18
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    INFJ

    1. (the maj.) melancholic phlegmatic.
    2. (the min.) phlegmatic melancholic.
    3. (a few) melancholic choleric.

    EF
    Sanguine choleric

    ETP
    Choleric sanguine

    ENTJ
    Choleric melancholic

    ISFJ
    Phlegmatic sanguine

    ESFJ
    Sanguine phlegmatic?

    Hence INTP should be melancholic choleric.

    Melancholic sanguine does not exist. Sanguine melancholic does not exist. How could they?

    I am not sure of that INTP either. A melancholic choleric is a poet, a traveller of obscure places. An easy rider.
    Well, not so easy.

  9. #19
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think there is a difference between the LaHaye's interpretations of they humors and the original meanings, but I'm not certain.

    If you go with something like the LaHaye's system, I'd say the correlations are something like:
    EXXP=Sanguine
    EXXJ=Choleric
    IXXP=Phlegmatic
    IXXJ=Melancholic

    Edit: For a secondary pref, there's a correlation between T and Choleric and F and Sanguine. I don't think you can go much further than that.
    This is similar to the correlation between the humors and MBTI. More specifically this is what I've found.

    A) S and N play little to no role in determining the four humors.

    B) Each person has all four humors, and they have them in a particular order. For example from strongest to weakest I am Phlegmatic, Sanguine, Choleric, Melancholic.

    B) 8 of the MBTI types can be derived from a person's strongest humor:
    ExFP = Sanguine
    ExTJ = Choleric
    IxTP = Phlegmatic
    IxFJ = Melancholic

    8 of the MBTI types can be derived from a person's weakest humor:
    IxTJ = Sanguine
    IxFP = Choleric
    ExFJ = Phlegmatic
    ExTP = Melancholic

    Now remember I am saying the bottom 8 types only tell you what the person's weakest humor is. For example my weakest humor is Melancholic and I am ENTP. But for the strongest humor in an ENTP it could be Phlegmatic, Sanguine, or Choleric. Each person is different. Likewise an INFP would have Choleric as their weakest humor and an ISTJ would have Sanguine as their weakest, but the strongest type is going to vary for each of these persons.

    For the top 8 types the opposite is true. The strongest humor is determined, but the order of the other three humors can vary from person to person.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Do you learn astronomy by studying astronomy? To an extent.
    In the end, it is all about particle physics.
    Do you learn the MBTI by studying the MBTI?
    Open the windows.

    In every function combination there is a rational and a non rational component.

    The ESTJ is not a choleric. Never. An SJ is a phlegmatic sanguine or a sanguine phlegmatic. Always and for ever.

    Choleric and melancholic come close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.

    Sanguine and phlegmatic come close. The only difference is in the active/passive plane.

    Study Fred. Learn from him.

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