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Thread: Faulty Logic

  1. #31
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
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    In other words, pure logic is field independent.
    What obstructs field independence (beyond emotion)?
    The observer is not a party in the observation.

    A judge is.
    Especially a good judge.

    What takes place in a crime scene?
    If you see it, you do not judge it.
    If you judge it, you do not see it.

    The playground is field independent.
    Fair play is field dependent.
    But pure logic is as evasive as pure truth. Is not the best way forward to try for perfection, to strive, but to always recognise that we haven't attained it?

    I think that what most claimers of logic are missing is wisdom. Logic is simply a tool and if wielded by a tool then it's use is diminished.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #32
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Faulty logic, for many, is their attempt at being correct.

    Logic is inerrand, so they've heard.

    Like 1 and 1 = 1, 1 xor 1 = 0, if a then b, and so on.. or with other logical systems, people do their best at being correct.

    Sad that almost nothing real really fits in the parameters of a, b, 0, 1. Not at least if we talk about death, life, god, meaning, purpose, democracy, pollution or anything like that.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    But pure logic is as evasive as pure truth. Is not the best way forward to try for perfection, to strive, but to always recognise that we haven't attained it?

    I think that what most claimers of logic are missing is wisdom. Logic is simply a tool and if wielded by a tool then it's use is diminished.
    This is what I said. We perfectly agree.

  4. #34
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Faulty logic, for many, is their attempt at being correct.

    Logic is inerrand, so they've heard.

    Like 1 and 1 = 1, 1 xor 1 = 0, if a then b, and so on.. or with other logical systems, people do their best at being correct.

    Sad that almost nothing real really fits in the parameters of a, b, 0, 1. Not at least if we talk about death, life, god, meaning, purpose, democracy, pollution or anything like that.
    Yes. But a judge has to deal with these concepts you mentioned.
    How does he do it? Does he throw the logic away?
    No.
    Does he switch between sides?
    Like Jekyll and Hyde?

    But Jekyll was the smart one. He was the one with the values.
    Poor Hyde was not even smart. He was only bad.

  5. #35
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Mouse agrees

    People expect too much out of logic. Run around with a label gun... in attempt to tag everything that's "good" to be logical and fundamentally sound. Except life is subjective. Rarely do you get boolean logic. But people don't care about "logic logic" really. They just want something that is consistent and make sense to them.

    Perhaps a mislabelling based on the identified virtue of being logical, pragmatic?
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  6. #36
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Mouse agrees

    People expect too much out of logic. Run around with a label gun... in attempt to tag everything that's "good" to be logical and fundamentally sound. Except life is subjective. Rarely do you get boolean logic. But people don't care about "logic logic" really. They just want something that is consistent and make sense to them.

    Perhaps a mislabelling based on the identified virtue of being logical, pragmatic?
    I'm not sure if this is what you mean or not, but this is how I would put it. In practice logic is very useful. All logic can essentially be boiled down to "If A then B". The problems with logic never come from B. If logic has a problem then the problem is with A. In other words as long as our initial premises are true, then the conclusions will be true. If one of our initial premises is false then B is irrelevant.

    However we can never be 100% certain that our initial premises are correct. In some premises we can have stronger confidence in than others, but none have absolute certainty. Also coming to correct a conclusion does not guarantee that any given person can apply the conclusion in a useful or meaningful way. Essentially I'm saying that I don't think there is anything wrong with logic at all as long as the user is aware of both its strengths and limitations. People can misuse logic just like they can misuse any other tool. I wouldn't blame this problem on the tool.
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  7. #37
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Mouse agrees

    People expect too much out of logic. Run around with a label gun... in attempt to tag everything that's "good" to be logical and fundamentally sound. Except life is subjective. Rarely do you get boolean logic. But people don't care about "logic logic" really. They just want something that is consistent and make sense to them.

    Perhaps a mislabelling based on the identified virtue of being logical, pragmatic?
    The problem is that you CAN use logic in almost every situation but you can't rely on it. People think that because it's logical that it's correct. A implies B does not imply that B implies A.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #38
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Faulty logic is more common than logic.
    It is widely accepted as logic.

    What is at the bottom of faulty logic?

    Who benefits of it?
    I confess, I confess, my logic is totally faulty.

  9. #39
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    I confess, I confess, my logic is totally faulty.
    Nah. It's just... personalised
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #40
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    I confess, I confess, my logic is totally faulty.
    Your logic is not faulty!

    Because your said the key word here.
    It is not about logic at all.
    It is about whose logic.

    Thank you, alcea rosea

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