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  1. #41
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    The way I use my dominant function is by people pragmatism. I feel like I'm split between what people could do and what they are likely to do, which can lead to more conflict than what a Fe-dom supposedly engages in. I lean more heavily towards what they're likely to do and I move accordingly. I don't feel particularly idealistic or optimistic towards people, but since I realize most of us kind of bumble around in life or for large periods of their lives--basically learn as you go (and this goes for me too, I'm not excluded in this) there is a sense of forgiveness towards our human imperfections. It's not enough to make me this magnanimous gracious person I want to be, but enough to take people in stride and be tolerant of certain negative behaviors in this kind of "Well what did I expect? *shrug*" sort of way.

    So I may get confusing right now, but the way this translates out into real life is I kind of go between dealing with our animal brain and our higher brain; between instinct (fear, pleasure) and our intelligence and thoughtful consciousness.

    That means that people's treatment of others is oftentimes dependent on if they like them or not, whether you look like and/or act like them, whether you think like them or not, whether you can make some personal relevant connection to them...basic simple stuff. So basic that people don't even think about it or others disregard it's importance. I really can't help that I think about this stuff, it's natural to me or it became natural at some point and it's something I enjoy doing so I do it.

    There's really no strict way this comes out in everyday life, I'm both fastidious in how I think about this and casual in my output, I suppose, I'm not good at self-evaluating.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #42
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Okay, reviving of the thread!

    I would love some more personal descriptions.

  3. #43
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'll give you Se + Ti, since I have a hard time keeping them seperate

    I consider Se to be my information intake process... always keeping my senses tuned in to my surroundings, always scanning those who I talk to for little movements- the flick of an eyebrow, a twitch at the corner of the mouth, how they're holding their hands or which way their eyes tend to drift when they're thinking- always noticing if a car is driving by on the street, what's moving in my peripheral vision, the tone in someone's voice or what something feels like... pretty much, if it happens around me, I tend to notice it!

    The data is continually run through and interpreted by Ti, which keeps me informed as to the motivations of someone (are they lying? do they dislike me? are they bored? and so on), or what's going on or the basic REALITY of the situation (yes, you may try to hide something, but Se + Ti in good working order probably sees it )

    This might be where the stereotypical STP bluntness comes from- the power to REALLY observe and process the situation

    and like I said in poki's blog earlier- people should be happy that ESTPs have tertiary Fe and that ISTPs don't talk much, or more feelings would be hurt!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #44
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    The data is continually run through and interpreted by Ti, which keeps me informed as to the motivations of someone (are they lying? do they dislike me? are they bored? and so on), or what's going on or the basic REALITY of the situation (yes, you may try to hide something, but Se + Ti in good working order probably sees it )
    Oh! That's how that istp figured out what I was attempting to do before I could understand my own motives through my Fi-Ne brain. It takes me half a lifetime to figure out myself. Oops.

    Also, I didn't look at the date of the first post and thought this was recent.

    My take, though not a perfect take:

    Fi: A is wrong. Z is right. Z is right based on my 'gut', based on my past experiences and the experiences of other people whether real or fictional (friends, films, books) that I have observed and deeply analyzed to understand how people work, what people mean, what people want, what I want, what I aspire to, what I admire and value, what society values, what makes a difference, what changes the status quo, what is just, fair and not hypocritical.

    Ne: A may be wrong and Z may be right but what about B, C, D, E, F, G, H ...etc

    That's why I am indecisive. Even though my dom is Fi and I am most influenced by it, I also use Ne to stretch my Fi and cover all grounds to make sure my Fi is indeed right. Fi is not completely irrational, it's just human data that we care to make graphs and charts out of, not hard, scientific data. We don't wake up one day and decide Method 1 of Society is inefficient and inhumane, no, we very thoroughly research and observe the cause and effects of Method 1 on society and base it on an objective, pragmatic sense of the subjective experiences of and effects on people.

    I also have a deep distrust of other people when they use their feelings to convince me. For them to convince me, I need them to cancel out all the B-Y, not just a We all follow that Z is right, so We must all continue to follow Z, without questioning A because of the established rules. I question these human rules and form my own rules based on what I decipher as right and that is based a lot on Ne because I see unconventional connections.

    My inferior Te that I have been fostering: Even if A is wrong and Z is right, A is how it is. If I want Z to happen, I need to accomplish E and M, even if both aren't ideal situations. If I don't want to take that on, I should just forget Z and move onto something else that I can actually do something about. Even if I have spend years developing Idea #12, it will not work in the current or future circumstances, it just will not, very simple, so I have to let this go and concentrate on something else.

    Inferior Se and something else, Si/Ti?: *looks at a new microwave for an hour trying to figure out how to get it to work* *backs away and trips over a flower*

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'll give you Se + Ti, since I have a hard time keeping them seperate

    I consider Se to be my information intake process... always keeping my senses tuned in to my surroundings, always scanning those who I talk to for little movements- the flick of an eyebrow, a twitch at the corner of the mouth, how they're holding their hands or which way their eyes tend to drift when they're thinking- always noticing if a car is driving by on the street, what's moving in my peripheral vision, the tone in someone's voice or what something feels like... pretty much, if it happens around me, I tend to notice it!

    The data is continually run through and interpreted by Ti, which keeps me informed as to the motivations of someone (are they lying? do they dislike me? are they bored? and so on), or what's going on or the basic REALITY of the situation (yes, you may try to hide something, but Se + Ti in good working order probably sees it )

    This might be where the stereotypical STP bluntness comes from- the power to REALLY observe and process the situation

    and like I said in poki's blog earlier- people should be happy that ESTPs have tertiary Fe and that ISTPs don't talk much, or more feelings would be hurt!


    Ti picks up everything logically and brings it inside. If we are in an argument the second your logic starts to smell fishy I begin to point out the inconsistancy in it and they start to stumble all over there own logic. Its illogical logic within the same frame of reference. This works well with Ti users and gets Te to jump into Fi judgement and forced to accept that the logic they used makes no sense. Cant really argue with Fi though in this manner when people switch into Fi mode. It just means the understanding behind the Fi needs to be refined or understood a little more.

    This is not realated at all from actually judging someones decision as good or bad, right or wrong based on the details of whats said.
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #46
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    Default Fi and Se

    I have to combine Fi and Se because they go together like lemon and honey in tea.
    I spend a lot of time outside, walking and scanning my environment. Sometimes I ride buses and, other times, I ride in cars. Because I have been on two long walks for different causes, I have seen my world within touching distance.
    When I see dead animals on the side of the road, I feel sad. I feel that this is not right, that these animals did not deserve to die just so that people can enjoy faster forms of transportation. I am especially heartbroken when I see dead cats because I live with cats and I am a pet sitter so I truly love cats. I am the one who picks up earthworms on a rainy day that wander onto the sidewalk. I put them in the grass so that they can have a chance for survival.
    When I walk in industrial areas and I can see, smell, and touch the damage that has been done to the earth by poor waste management, I feel that my core values have been violated. The earth is my home to be cared for and water is life. We are mostly water and we need water to live.
    It is my fervent hope that I can be part of helping to make the earth a healthier home for people and animals.
    Because of my strong Se, which is my auxiliary function as an isfp, I want to see, smell, taste, hear, and touch the world and everything in it. I want to relish in sensory intensity. My Fi says that I must work for a healthier world, one that is not poisoned by nuclear or chemical waste.
    On a beautiful and clear day, I walk by rivers or the ocean or in the woods and I am one with the beauty of all of it.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  7. #47
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    And here's Ne+Ti:

    My world is filled with theories and abstract ideas. Whenever I can allow it, my mind wanders around and creates new ones: scraps of description and dialogue for my stories, ways to explain maths or physics to my students, a reaction to the "MBTI is not scientific anyway" these posed in the (totally derailed into personal insults) "stupid ESFP" thread,...
    Not all those ideas are useful or even consistent... what you see here is already filtered by Ti. Lately I made an elaborate Harry Potter fanfiction in my head where I, as a Muggle-born, entered Hogwarts and did what Hermione should have done(*): study Muggle physics and technology, combine it with magic... Those wizards think they are so much better but they are using quills to write?! Old Voldy wouldn't accept it but that's his loss!
    (*) Which proves whatever type Hermione is, she isn't an ENTP.
    Of course I play a Mary Sue role there but... it's fun to try and combine magic with Muggle physics. Even if Ti says it's inconsistent. (It is. Electricity doesn't work but light and chemistry and the nervous system do?)
    Of course this prompts me to devise a magical system which is consistent at least with the physics I know... The interaction is both ways. It's not only Ne devising things and Ti filtering. Trying to fit everything together consistently gives inspiration. Loads of it.

    When I am alone with my computer and a blank text document and loads of time to write, no ideas will come. That's Ne indeed: listening to a lecture about nanotechnology, I knew which surgery would be performed on my new SF hero; attending a failure of a festival, I tried to devise why this one failed and others succeed and checked my little theory on other parties and festivals I remembered; prompted about my daily use of the functions I write down everything I think of (Ne) and edit it later (Ti); while teaching I love it when my students ask unexpected questions...
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  8. #48
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
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    Ne+Ti,

    When talking to people I use Ne to come up with different scenerio of the subject that seem to come out of nowhere. I use it to predict certain scenerio of facts that I have gathered and try to predict the outcome as far as possible. It has help me when I handle things to see the different possible outcome that can happen, that's why I always wonder when people don't fore see something that is so obvious would happen when it's so clear to me. It's the cause of my procrascrination because I would imagine how boring something is and I would end up not doing it until the last minute. It also helps me see concenquences if I don't do something. For example, I know if I don't pay a bill on time I would end up paying extra for it..since I end up imagining the process would be boring .. I end up not paying (as predicted, damn I'm good). I use it to imagine things I haven't done before, how it would feel like to do that certain something, then end up dissapointing myself because it was not as good as I imagined it to be.

    It makes me buy things even when I want to save money . Especially when someone says that something is good.

    In video game, it makes me save potions because I might need it later. Explore all areas because something awesome might be hidden. Try out different combinations to see how it would work out. Also the cause of why I played so many different classes when I was playing WoW.

    In basketball, I try to figure out how I can make a shot everytime. I pay attention to my wrist movement, the spot I'm on, I try to duplicate shots that goes in the basket using previous hypothesis. However, this method has not worked out for me yet, so nowdays I just do random shots.

    In school....well I don't use it in school (only in the baskeball court, har har) since the teacher would usually me weird looks when I try to tell him/her an idea not in the text book. So I've learn to keep my mouth shut and it has made my life a little easier. But I sooo love using Ne.
    This post grammatical errors had been intentionally left uncorrected.

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