How do you use Fi?

[Thalassa]

I think in the process of the maturation of Fi dom/aux they actually do tend to have a deeper understanding of other people because they learn to value the fact that other people have different value systems.

The paradox of the Fi dom/aux is the personal universal values. I've seen the INTJs say this is an oxymoron, etc. but I don't think so.

Fi starts out with personal values, sure, but as the person matures they will note universal values, oh yes, I think they will. I think they're highly likely (especially when Ne users) to notice patterns of human ethical values in different cultures, underlying humanity.

I also think the strange thing is that we can defend our own values so fiercely, to the point of seeming disruptive or like outsiders, but when we're in a mature, rational Fi state we're so aware of how other people have their right to have values too, and how it's all circumstantial and shifting, etc.

Fe has a similar complexity and seeming oxymoronic quality: they supposedly are always focused on other people, caring about the best interest of the collective group, and prizing harmony over standing up for individual values...but on the other hand they also impose social structure onto others (which seems willful rather than others-centered or harmonious) and in some cases (particularly in cases of Fe/Si) will almost stupidly adhere to "social order" even when it's completely irrational, non-sensical, and has nothing to do with anything.

Neither Feeling function is simple or one-sided.

 

[InvisibleJim]

TJs get the insular Fi, and FPs get to tap a little into the Eidos. Sucks, I know. I didn't make the rules though j/k.

In actual fact xNTJs and xSFPs get the Se-Fi, xSTJs and xNFPs get the Ne-Fi.

The problem with Ne-Fi is it assumes Se-Fi is the same or 'is missing' the Ne component.

This is envision from the post above and indeed your own post:

There is only one Fi, you guys are deficient because you don't display the same Fi traits that we do! Our Fi is moar healthy!

There is no such thing as 'non insular Fi'.

personal universal

Should we spell out that this is really just mirroring the mirror and an INFP wouldn't feel their values were universal?

 

[Thalassa]

In actual fact xNTJs and xSFPs get the Se-Fi, xSTJs and xNFPs get the Ne-Fi.

The problem with Ne-Fi is it assumes Se-Fi is the same or 'is missing' the Ne component.

'splain the diff between Se-Fi and Ne-Fi, if you can.

Should we spell out that this is really just mirroring the mirror and an INFP wouldn't feel their values were universal?

I dunno, I've noticed that older ESFPs (like my mom) are so live and let live, and I think over time ENFPs get that way too. FPs have a way of getting "live and let live" even if they differ on Ne/Se points. The NFP is probably more likely to preach to you about their personal values, but my SFP mother shows a similar violence to an NFP if she's crossed on her turf. All of these make Fi "look the same" to me.

I've also noticed my ESFP mother getting butthurt and taking things personally like an NFP would, and so does my questionably ExFP sister (she tests ENFP, I sometimes suspect ESFP for lots of reasons) ...but my ENFJ sister on the other hand tends to stay more neutral and "outside" of it all (so she can manage the group, of course, let's not forget this aspect), and marvels at our ability to take each other so personally. My ISFJ sister also is very sensitive, but at the same time I don't think she takes things as personally, either. She doesn't have the same thing as "hey! you messed with my personal identity!" or whatever. She's the traditional "others focused" ISFJ for the most part, giving, nurturing, happy with little as long as she has a specific security and the people she loves around her. She can be bitchy, don't get me wrong, and so can ENFJ, but it's in a different way. In ENFJs case this mostly consists of trying to control or alter other people's behavior.

Am I off topic here? Yes, I am. We were talking about personal universal values. Yep, INFPs can really be unapologetically "my values are mine" sometimes, so you suspect that these "universal values" are an ENFP delusion?

Why do most cultures of people have an idea of "not hurting people unless they deserve it"? Of course, what constitutes "deserving it" can vary from culture to culture.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

F1: I subjectively use my emotions to inform me of what is important to me

3

F2: I seek to know what is truly important to me, my deeply held values

3
F3: I am aware of universal personal values

"universal personal"???

1

F4: I maintain internal harmony and personal integrity by adhering to my deeply held values

3

F5: I know what is truly important to me and use this knowledge to guide decisions

2


F6: I value all living things, attempting to allow each to maintain its own integrity

1

F7: I assess other people�s emotional states by reading my own internal reactions.

1


F8: I judge ideas, attitudes and behaviors according to my values

1


F9: I crusade for what is right even if it creates tension with the external world and may endanger a personal relationship

1

16/45

 

[InvisibleJim]

'splain the diff between Se-Fi and Ne-Fi, if you can.

Se-Fi, ethics judged in the current situation as it appears - based upon introverted viewpoint.

Ne-Fi, ethics judged on the exchange of ideas about a person or topic - based upon introverted viewpoint.

 

[KDude]

Se-Fi, ethics judged in the current situation as it appears - based upon introverted viewpoint.

Ne-Fi, ethics judged on the exchange of ideas about a person or topic - based upon introverted viewpoint.

I've been wondering for awhile now about the differences. It's mostly right, what you're saying, but there are ESPs who are more complicated/refined than that in their views. I wonder sometimes that when Ni emerges for them, even if somewhat unconsciously, there's a more dramatic/milestone effect to it.. that reorients their sense of purpose, and shapes their judgement.. until the next milestone hits. One year, they're this; the next, they're that. Ni working in tandem with some kind of powerful Se information. It could be a shocking event, or maybe just something mundane.. like a new trend. Or maybe just a career change. This higher acquisition of direct experience, sometimes dramatic experience, may make their values kind of universal over time. There will be some who are more open to being more led by Se.. even extremely in some cases.. but it's kind of an interesting dynamic... ahem.. if they're "healthy". hah

 

[King sns]

I've been wondering for awhile now about the differences. It's mostly right, what you're saying, but there are ESPs who are more complicated/refined than that in their views. I wonder sometimes that when Ni emerges for them, even if somewhat unconsciously, there's a more dramatic/milestone effect to it.. that reorients their sense of purpose, and shapes their judgement.. until the next milestone hits. One year, they're this; the next, they're that. Ni working in tandem with some kind of powerful Se information. It could be a shocking event, or maybe just something mundane.. like a new trend. Or maybe just a career change. This higher acquisition of direct experience, sometimes dramatic experience, may make their values kind of universal over time. There will be some who are more open to being more by Se.. even extreme in some cases.. but it's kind of an interesting dynamic... ahem.. if they're "healthy". hah

Hmmm.. Never thought of it that way before. sounds accurate though. Our focuses and priorities change based on what we're seeing over time.

 

[lunalum]

retaking this...

F1: I subjectively use my emotions to inform me of what is important to me - 2
F2: I seek to know what is truly important to me, my deeply held values - 2 (um, I already know what's important to me... not much depth there)
F3: I am aware of universal personal values - 2 (universal personal...?)
F4: I maintain internal harmony and personal integrity by adhering to my deeply held values - 2 (I don't think I hold things very deeply...)
F5: I know what is truly important to me and use this knowledge to guide decisions - 4
F6: I value all living things, attempting to allow each to maintain its own integrity - 4
F7: I assess other people's emotional states by reading my own internal reactions. - 3 (I empathize a lot but I don't really assess)
F8: I judge ideas, attitudes and behaviors according to my values - 2
F9: I crusade for what is right even if it creates tension with the external world and may endanger a personal relationship - 4

Total= 25/45

So... I'm probably not IxFP, but it may make my T/F questionable as an ENxP (I guess in theory I'm supposed to almost totally lack it, lol). I am guided by what I want and what I think is important, but there isn't the depth that is being implied here. I'm also challenging things a lot, but it's not so much about what is right in some deeper sense of the word.

 

[Eric B]

I now believe some of these descriptions can be really misleading, if not understood in the contexts they were framed in. Especially concerning "values" and "emotions".

Lenore Thomson's description seems to be the most solid. Fi is personal identification with variable (independently analyzed rather than externally set) situations. (This is best portrayed by #7,, and also where the "universal" element of #3 comes from).
This (in my translation) leads to an internal standard of humane (as opposed to technical or "impersonal) values. That may lead to the above behaviors, such as being in touch with and trusting emotions; but the way those are generalized as "Fi" there makes it look like you have to "use Fi" whenever you "value" something, place importance, etc. (hence, like what I'm doing now), and this causes confusion for TP and FJ types, who find they do these things just as much as anyone else.
These are products of an ego. Egos of any type.

 

[Such Irony]

F1: I subjectively use my emotions to inform me of what is important to me
3

F2: I seek to know what is truly important to me, my deeply held values
3

F3: I am aware of universal personal values
4

F4: I maintain internal harmony and personal integrity by adhering to my deeply held values
4

F5: I know what is truly important to me and use this knowledge to guide decisions
4

F6: I value all living things, attempting to allow each to maintain its own integrity
3

F7: I assess other people�s emotional states by reading my own internal reactions.
2

F8: I judge ideas, attitudes and behaviors according to my values
3

F9: I crusade for what is right even if it creates tension with the external world and may endanger a personal relationship
3

Score: 29/45

 

[rav3n]

How do you use Fi?

As little as humanly possible. When it manifests, I sometimes shove it in the closet, padlock the door, brick up the entire wall, then slap on some cement. But it always gets out again.

 

[StrawMan]

"How do you use Fi?"

If Fi tries to tell me something, I doublecheck it with Ti, Ne and also little bit with Fe. If the Fi -conclusion still looks solid, I'm happy with it.

 

[wolfy]

To figure out how I feel about stuff and what action is right.

 

[strychnine]

F1: I subjectively use my emotions to inform me of what is important to me - 1
F2: I seek to know what is truly important to me, my deeply held values - 4
F3: I am aware of universal personal values - 1
F4: I maintain internal harmony and personal integrity by adhering to my deeply held values - 1
F5: I know what is truly important to me and use this knowledge to guide decisions - 3
F6: I value all living things, attempting to allow each to maintain its own integrity - 4
F7: I assess other people's emotional states by reading my own internal reactions. - 1
F8: I judge ideas, attitudes and behaviors according to my values - 1 (what are 'values'?)
F9: I crusade for what is right even if it creates tension with the external world and may endanger a personal relationship - 4

20/45

I only deal with emotions when I absolutely have to. I dissect them. Usually, I do the closet shove thing as well, because I can't stand them. I don't think I'm dominant Fi, so I changed my type to ISTJ for now.

 

[raz]

F1: I subjectively use my emotions to inform me of what is important to me - 3.5
F2: I seek to know what is truly important to me, my deeply held values 3
F3: I am aware of universal personal values 3
F4: I maintain internal harmony and personal integrity by adhering to my deeply held values 3
F5: I know what is truly important to me and use this knowledge to guide decisions 2.5
F6: I value all living things, attempting to allow each to maintain its own integrity 2.5
F7: I assess other people�s emotional states by reading my own internal reactions. 4
F8: I judge ideas, attitudes and behaviors according to my values - 3
F9: I crusade for what is right even if it creates tension with the external world and may endanger a personal relationship 2.5

26.5/45

I'm aware of my personal values and attempt to adhere to them, but I'm more swayed by success, productivity and results. I've learned recently to attempt to create a mix of both mindsets because both enter my mind constantly and I need to seek harmony.

 

[sculpting]

This is a poor crutch of what Fi is, it does not distill the essence of Fi, merely the NFP view of Fi from the perspective of said NFP. The essence of Fi is a self inclusive ethics system, there are several points above which aren't introverted at all.

It's introverted, it isn't empathy in the slightest. It is inflicting your own values on others through projection/mirroring/molding whatever you want to call it and then declaring you understand people by your own individual perception that is based upon your own internal reality. I smell something off.

Hey jim,

I didnt write this-it actually came out of some book on functions. I am uncertain if the description was written by an NFP or not, although i do agree that it is very FiSi in nature.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

F1: I subjectively use my emotions to inform me of what is important to me ...I guess so. I'm really not certain if emotions are always the guiding light when it comes to what's important... but I am much more subjective. So maybe, yes?
F2: I seek to know what is truly important to me, my deeply held values Yes.
F3: I am aware of universal personal values Aware? Yes, I suppose.
F4: I maintain internal harmony and personal integrity by adhering to my deeply held values I do my best to live according to my own personal standards. And I do feel guilt when I don't adhere to it.
F5: I know what is truly important to me and use this knowledge to guide decisions Know? My opinions and views and values are often under scrutiny and ever shifting. But as thoughts come and go, I do my best to let it guide me.
F6: I value all living things, attempting to allow each to maintain its own integrity Most living things. I could do without fleas and mosquitos.
F7: I assess other people�s emotional states by reading my own internal reactions. Hmm... I don't know if that's necessarily how it works... but I am constantly assessing other people's and my own emotional states, yes.
F8: I judge ideas, attitudes and behaviors according to my values I do... but I'm open to differences.
F9: I crusade for what is right even if it creates tension with the external world and may endanger a personal relationship I really don't like to create tension... it depends on how strongly I feel about something. I've been known to crusade on occasion.

 

[NAPSTABLOOK22]

F1: I subjectively use my emotions to inform me of what is important to me 2/5
F2: I seek to know what is truly important to me, my deeply held values 1/5
F3: I am aware of universal personal values 0/5
F4: I maintain internal harmony and personal integrity by adhering to my deeply held values 1/5
F5: I know what is truly important to me and use this knowledge to guide decisions 1/5
F6: I value all living things, attempting to allow each to maintain its own integrity 0/5
F7: I assess other people�s emotional states by reading my own internal reactions. 0/5
F8: I judge ideas, attitudes and behaviors according to my values 1.5/5
F9: I crusade for what is right even if it creates tension with the external world and may endanger a personal relationship 2/5

Total: 8.5/45 or 18.89%

 

[Dreamer]

F1: I subjectively use my emotions to inform me of what is important to me 5 Not very conscious of this process but basically, my emotions guide me nearly 90% the time...I guess I should've answered 4.5 then
F2: I seek to know what is truly important to me, my deeply held values 3
F3: I am aware of universal personal values 3
F4: I maintain internal harmony and personal integrity by adhering to my deeply held values 4
F5: I know what is truly important to me and use this knowledge to guide decisions 3
F6: I value all living things, attempting to allow each to maintain its own integrity 3
F7: I assess other people�s emotional states by reading my own internal reactions. 5
F8: I judge ideas, attitudes and behaviors according to my values 2
F9: I crusade for what is right even if it creates tension with the external world and may endanger a personal relationship 1

29/45 ~64%

 

[Lord Lavender]

F1: I subjectively use my emotions to inform me of what is important to me 0
F2: I seek to know what is truly important to me, my deeply held values 0
F3: I am aware of universal personal values 0
F4: I maintain internal harmony and personal integrity by adhering to my deeply held values 0
F5: I know what is truly important to me and use this knowledge to guide decisions 0
F6: I value all living things, attempting to allow each to maintain its own integrity 2
F7: I assess other people�s emotional states by reading my own internal reactions. 3
F8: I judge ideas, attitudes and behaviors according to my values 1
F9: I crusade for what is right even if it creates tension with the external world and may endanger a personal relationship 0


6/45= 13%