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  1. #11
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Ti 1: I organize data and ideas into a logical internal framework or sets of categories. [0]
    Ti 2: I seek data to fill holes in my models, frameworks, blueprints and logical taxonomies [1]
    Ti 3: I use my inner understanding of how ideas and things logically fit together to help me understand how things work [3]
    Ti 4: I modify models and frameworks to accommodate new data, thereby preserving inner logical consistency [0]
    Ti 5: I seek precision in my use of words and in my internal models, frameworks, and blueprints [0]
    Ti 6: I logically prioritize categories and components of models in terms of the needs of the situation [1]
    Ti 7: I restructure my priorities based upon my category profiles [1]
    Ti 8: I make decisions based on my category profiles [1]
    Ti 9: I seek logical consistency in my life [0]
    Ti 10: I use precise language to try and get the world to understand logical conceptual models and/or blueprints [2]

    9
    Apparently, Ti is a lot more complex than I would have guessed. I don't even understand half of that stuff.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Well I know my Te is pretty limited.

    I do see what you mean, and I do agree that it's not something I could always describe too well...framework sure sounds more like Te then Ti. I see Ti as "if then else" basically Only, in parallel with other cases at the same time and at higher speeds. Checking for consistency. I sure would prefer not to write it all down, but that's because it often just 'clicks' in my mind.

    I know that, if there was a (better) list of every Ti trait, I wouldn't possess them all, but I think I'd relate to most of them to some degree unlike with other functions like Si or Te or Ni.

    The minute we start talking about functions is the minute I'm more than sure a spectrum is needed to consider all cases. There are just too many subtleties, too many people who don't obey to a given type's function order.
    Yeh, I know I only got the Te stuff in the last few years, and it is a big change. I look at business systems, feel managerial . But I was always good at logical and maths problems. Maybe Ne visualisation is enough on its own. If you read the Ti questions carefully, do you really do all the structuring and frameworks stuff, or just see the systems and the answer? (We are a visionary type, and our perception and visualisation of problems is pretty damn good.)
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Well, when forced to use pen and paper I do organize my thoughts somewhat, but yes it's partly subconscious which is what I was referring to. I just now I can often explain my reasoning in a very elementary/fundamental manner. A -> B -> C. And I do often bear it mind when formulating a solution.

    The questions themselves, are poorly worded I think. When I use my value system I don't always go into detail WHY I think that why, but if someone asked me, I could. I think the same logic applies to Ti.

    For example : "I modify models and frameworks to accommodate new data, thereby preserving inner logical consistency". Yes, I look at the word model and framework and raise my eyebrow a bit...but at a subconscious level I think that is exactly what happens. I always incorporate new found knowledge into the grand scheme of logical consistency. "F = m*a is always true". Well...it's not always precise, but you can use it safely 99% of the time. You learn about quantum physics. You incorporate that into your "framework" I guess, and relativize the validity of everything you knew before. So I guess I always strive for that consistency, but I also know that one must balance things out depending on whom we are discussing whatever topic we are discussing.

    I hope that partially answered your question I know what you are hinting at...but I don't believe everyone uses a bit of each function so it's only logical that some use A or B, more that others...while still saying nothing about preference. Ti is not my preference. But I do use it, I think.

  4. #14
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I do see what you mean, and I do agree that it's not something I could always describe too well...framework sure sounds more like Te then Ti. I see Ti as "if then else" basically Only, in parallel with other cases at the same time and at higher speeds. Checking for consistency. I sure would prefer not to write it all down, but that's because it often just 'clicks' in my mind.

    I know that, if there was a (better) list of every Ti trait, I wouldn't possess them all, but I think I'd relate to most of them to some degree unlike with other functions like Si or Te or Ni..
    When considering if you use Ti or not, rather than thinking of it more in isolation the way an INTP would, think of how an ENTP would use it. Ne first then Ti second.

    I really, really want to get a better understanding of what happens as they Ne-Ti problems, becuase I dont think it is the clean Ti the INTPs love.

    I would guess Ti becomes more willing to "remodel" while building, if being used with Ne, and thus is less rigid and linear, until the model is fully defined. Totally a guess on my end though.

    When I feel like I am using Ti, it is like it takes turns with Fi. They toss the idea back and forth and pick at it from different angles. First Ne connects based upon what Fi is interested in-mostly people. Then Ti gets pulled into to develop a framework, poke holes, and find flaws-and most especially find ways to test to confirm. If this than this, If that than that. It is not easy though and I can feel whole chuncks of brain come online. I find I look for chances to use it, as it is fun in a painful way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    The minute we start talking about functions is the minute I'm more than sure a spectrum is needed to consider all cases. There are just too many subtleties, too many people who don't obey to a given type's function order.
    I am a big fan of the functions myself and most people seem to follow the order okay. You can kinda see how most folks seem to have the first two functions pretty well defined, but then as they get older all those others start to pop up as they "work" on them. I see lots who follow the "overuse" of the tertiary function model.

    Neat though, a dominant function vs an aux vs a tert function can be so different in how they present themselves that they almost deserve a seperate consideration. Ti dom is nothing thing whatever Ti we use for instance. (could all be Ne BS though )

  5. #15
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Maybe it is Fi, but when sorting out my own feelings (once I've dealt with them in a 'feely' way), I analyze, categorize, systematize them as being relevant, valid, considering outside influences, plugging them into what I've learned about myself and how that affects the rest, much like a puzzle you're completing, and then testing it before I accept it to work. I dunno, is that Te and Ne then?
    Nup. That's an outstanding description of Fi (with a little Te in the tail). So asserts I.

    I humbly submit that you guys being, via Fi processing, intimately familiar with this type of analysis, it would make it easier to see that style of reasoning "out there", and perhaps even mimic it for T, except perhaps that you'd be describing the connections you saw rather than actually doing the Ti.

    I just made that up.

  6. #16
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    This was tricky, because I do this stuff with motivations and feelings all the time. In answering this, I had a hard time separating the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    2 Ti 1: I organize data and ideas into a logical internal framework or sets of categories. How can I make sense of a thing unless I put it in a proper context?
    3 Ti 2: I seek data to fill holes in my models, frameworks, blueprints and logical taxonomies. I hate missing gaps in my knowledge spectrum.
    2 Ti 3: I use my inner understanding of how ideas and things logically fit together to help me understand how things work. I'll do this out of necessity, and I find it's necessary frequently. It doesn't mean it's natural to me.
    2 Ti 4: I modify models and frameworks to accommodate new data, thereby preserving inner logical consistency I'd do this more, but it's a bit of a blow everytime I find out I'm flat out wrong in something. Rewarding, but exhausting.
    1 Ti 5: I seek precision in my use of words and in my internal models, frameworks, and blueprints. Sadly, I'm all too happy to let good enough alone here, which can make my models sloppy unless I'm challenged to refine them.
    0 Ti 6: I logically prioritize categories and components of models in terms of the needs of the situation. I'm bending my mind in weird ways trying to understand this, so I give myself a 0.
    2 Ti 7: I restructure my priorities based upon my category profiles See Ti 8.
    1 Ti 8: I make decisions based on my category profiles. I challenge myself by coming up with the best 'logical' course of action. However, I then use that to feed Fi to make the call, otherwise I quickly become miserable.
    1 Ti 9: I seek logical consistency in my life Honestly, not so much. I very much value it, though.
    1 Ti 10: I use precise language to try and get the world to understand logical conceptual models and/or blueprints. Very difficult. I can spend 10 minutes writing a post and 20 minutes trying to pull out the essence and eliminate verbiage, and still fail.
    Score = 15
    Last edited by Udog; 07-03-2009 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Added total for personal reference.

  7. #17
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    This was tricky, because I do this stuff with motivations and feelings all the time. In answering this, I had a hard time separating the two.
    Exactly. I do all of that (to an extent) as well, it is simply not fully separated from my feeling. The process sounds similar, it's just less detached.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  8. #18
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    2 -- Ti: I organize data and ideas into a logical internal framework or sets of categories.

    3 (if seeking internal data counts) -- Ti: I seek data to fill holes in my models, frameworks, blueprints and logical taxonomies

    4 -- Ti: I use my inner understanding of how ideas and things logically fit together to help me understand how things work

    2 -- Ti: I modify models and frameworks to accommodate new data, thereby preserving inner logical consistency

    3 -- Ti: I seek precision in my use of words and in my internal models, frameworks, and blueprints

    2 -- Ti: I logically prioritize categories and components of models in terms of the needs of the situation

    1 -- Ti: I restructure my priorities based upon my category profiles

    2 -- Ti: I make decisions based on my category profiles

    3 -- Ti: I seek logical consistency in my life

    3 -- Ti: I use precise language to try and get the world to understand logical conceptual models and/or blueprints

    Ti comes fairly naturally to me, but I have a chaotic inner world and Ti is the servant of Fi.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  9. #19
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Exactly. I do all of that (to an extent) as well, it is simply not fully separated from my feeling. The process sounds similar, it's just less detached.
    Yeah, like I have all sorts of models when it comes to motivations, and they are constantly being molded to the situation, shifted, and applied. But when it comes to purely logical constructs... yeah, not so much.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Nillerz's Avatar
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    I use lots. LOTS.

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