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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    NT's: 'how is gun control justified? why must we follow a rule that was made so long ago when it is evident that guns undermine peaceful socie...' BAM!
    Egads! Many NTs appreciate Austrian steel and plastics engineering.

  2. #112
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    That's hardly absentminded.

    So, Merc, that was you? Never had a chance to thank you.
    argh. picky picky. i would've wrote '"i need to get to my daughter's party on tim..." BAM!' but that would not be as funny. stage presence INTJ's, stage presence.

  3. #113
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    That's hardly absentminded.

    So, Merc, that was you? Never had a chance to thank you.
    All in a day's work. I'd love to say, "You'd have done the same for me," but nobody would do that for an ESFJ, it seems. LOL
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #114
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    If someone's reading out loud, the ESTJ is the one who twitches whenever something is pronounced incorrectly. (I have literally done this, and I've seen other ESTJs do it too.) They will then volunteer to replace the reader, and they will do it eagerly. Also, if you ask them about a big political issue, they will know exactly what they think, and given time, they will RANT about it to you.

    If you're feeling bad and are hiding it really well, and no one else had noticed so far, and then someone comes over and asks quietly if you're okay, that person might be an INFJ. They're shy at first, but once you get to know each other, INFJs are very, VERY caring friends. And they give lots of hugs. (both genders.)

  5. #115
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    I like ESTJs in that sort of "you tell these guys to shut up so I can continue smirking in the corner" way.

  6. #116
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I like ESTJs in that sort of "you tell these guys to shut up so I can continue smirking in the corner" way.
    I'm not sure if that's an insult or a compliment

  7. #117
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    I have a problem with the INTJ profiles saying that we're practical...I think strategic would be a better qualifier. *accidentally drops cup*

    INT - Not There --> definitely agree.

  8. #118
    Junior Member unconvinced's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomedbyFire View Post
    are there specific tell-tale signs of type?
    the only ones i can tell very easily are E/I and S/N (i am not totally convinced that T/F and J/P are really markers of personality, and not just of mood/circumstance. i think there is something to them but that maybe that they need more definitional clarity to be able to survive test-retest experiments, which they can't right now).

    i think most people can tell E's from I's, so here's my S test: does the person your talking to ever make novel connections between information/ideas/images etc?

    because in my experience S's never connect disparate information to create something new.

    No matter how well read or educated they are, they do not create novel links between disparate ideas. They are great at extending established ideas along established and predictable parameters, but they never change the parameters altogether. and they don't accept new ideas until an authority figure or consensus approves them.

    If you are an N talking with an S, the S will be hostile and condescending to any of your novel intuitions, regardless of the topic; whereas another N will be intrigued, even if they remain unconvinced. N's almost never ask you to substantiate an intuition, they don't need to because they have the same ability you do, to follow threads of unconnected information. They may disagree with your conclusions, but it won't be because you "made it up;" it will just be because they intuit a different conclusion.

    I find that even when you ultimately prove the truth of your intuitions to an S, they will steadfastly disagree with you until some authority confirms your assertions--even in the face of overwhelming evidence. the worst are the S's who are convinced they are N's--if you point out to them that being hostile to intuitive forms of knowing is incompatible with being an N they will give you some mumbo-jumbo orwellian definition that N that means S!

    ps: why is reading nutrition labels is ISTJ-ish? that seems a little bit silly to me. people could do that for too many reasons that have nothing to do with type (like having a peanut allergy and not wanting to die).
    to accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe--anatole france

  9. #119
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unconvinced View Post
    there's my S test: does the person your talking to ever make novel connections between information/ideas/images etc?

    because in my experience S's never connect disparate information to create something new.

    No matter how well read or educated they are, they do not create novel links between disparate ideas. They are great at extending established ideas along established and predictable parameters, but they never change the parameters altogether.
    What does "novel links between disparate ideas" mean?

    and they don't accept new ideas until an authority figure or consensus approves them.
    It makes sense you would think this based on your dismissing of the J/P difference. But this is one of those ones that applies more to SJs than SPs. I accept new ideas if they result in something cool. I need no authority figure or consensus to approve them. I just need my own senses to see the evidence and not just an abstract theory.

    If you are an N talking with an S, the S will be hostile and condescending to any of your novel intuitions, regardless of the topic; whereas another N will be intrigued, even if they remain unconvinced. N's almost never ask you to substantiate an intuition, they don't need to because they have the same ability you do, to follow threads of unconnected information. They may disagree with your conclusions, but it won't be because you "made it up;" it will just be because they intuit a different conclusion.
    Again, since I'm not sure what "novel intuitions" are, I can't be sure, but I try not to be hostile and condescending to anyone, regardless of how loopy they are.

    I find that even when you ultimately prove the truth of your intuitions to an S, they will steadfastly disagree with you until some authority confirms your assertions--even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
    Again, no. If the evidence is truly "overwhelming" to my own senses, then I need no authority to tell me anything.
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  10. #120
    Junior Member unconvinced's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    What does "novel links between disparate ideas" mean?
    novel links = those that you make on your own that are both new and not obvious (you don't have to be the first in all of time to have thought of it, but you can't have read it or heard about it somewhere else first--it has to be new to you).

    disparate ideas= two ideas (or facts or concepts or theories or any form of information) that are seemingly unrelated

    example: genetic bottleneck in humans approx. 75,000 years ago + caldera volcano eruption approx. 75,000 years ago = bottleneck caused by eruption (this is now accepted and seems really obvious but both these facts were known for some time before an outsider to both fields made the connection)

    example: width of human female pelvis + width of neanderthal female pelvis = humans and neaderthals could not breed successfully (this is now mostly accepted, after almost 50 years of fighting, due to dna testing)

    example: bubonic plague is a tropical disease with a slow rate of transmission + the black death occurred in northern europe during the little ice age and spread at phenomenal rate of 2-3 miles a day in a time before trains, plains, and automobiles = black death not bubonic plague (still controversial)

    example: all contemporary depictions of people suffering from the black death resemble small pox + small pox is a cold weather disease that travels very well by foot, ship, or horse cart do to length of incubation period = the black death was not bubonic plague but a virgin soil outbreak of small pox (unaccepted--this is my thesis)

    (examples from politics would probably be clearer but they are usually too emotionally charged to be viewed dispassionately)

    It makes sense you would think this based on your dismissing of the J/P difference. But this is one of those ones that applies more to SJs than SPs. I accept new ideas if they result in something cool. I need no authority figure or consensus to approve them. I just need my own senses to see the evidence and not just an abstract theory.
    do you generate new connections on your own? and what do you do for all of those ideas for which there is no sense data available by which to judge? i don't dismiss T/F or J/P outright but i think they are very muddled and that the questions that are used to determine them are mood dependent (which has been proved in MBTI test-rest experiments among subjects unfamiliar with MBTI).


    Again, since I'm not sure what "novel intuitions" are, I can't be sure, but I try not to be hostile and condescending to anyone, regardless of how loopy they are.
    really now? =)

    Again, no. If the evidence is truly "overwhelming" to my own senses, then I need no authority to tell me anything.
    what if the evidence is not overwhelming or even completely absent, how do you decide?

    when you intuit something you need no sense data at all to "know" it is true. that's my point! regardless of Ni or Ne, intuition is at heart a-logical, and often involves "knowing" something that both logic and sense data all scream are incorrect but which in fact turns to be true (like the fact that the earth's crust is really a very thick fluid). i would say all N's, consciously or not, only use sense data to bolster intuitions they already accept as true--and only because they have been conditioned since childhood to do so by having to live in a world dominated by sensors. for us, sense data that contradicts our intuition is challenged strenuously before we will let it defeat our intuition.

    for me, it is as if there are color trails on every bit of information that my mind encounters. even when i want to turn it off, she is weaving those threads into endless patterns, most dissolve into nothing but those that don't, those that form a coherent pattern are overwhelmingly, self-evidently, true to me, such that it would take a considerable amount of counter-evidence to defeat the ideas.

    i wasn't trying to insult S's, i hope you were not insulted, if you like i can offer a clue to guessing N's: we tend to be conspiracy theorists =)

    neither sensing nor intuiting is infallible, but as an N, dealing with S's can be really annoying and a killjoy when a great idea takes hold of me.
    to accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe--anatole france

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