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Exact opposite types

NewEra

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I've been interested in this opposite/shadow type thing. SO I was thinking that if you by cognitive functioning, the exact opposite of a type would be determined by switching the middle two letters. For example, an ISTJ conventionally has these functions:

Si>Te>Fi>Ne>Se>Ti>Fe>Ni

So the exact opposite type by functions would be determined by switching the middle two letters (S and T), and thus get INFJ:

Ni>Fe>Ti>Se>Ne>Fi>Te>Si

So the exact opposite type of ISTJ is INFJ, and for every type would be switching the middle two letters. Thoughts?
 

Chloe

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my exact opposite are STPs and NFJs, according to first 4 functions. So ESTP is complete opposite. I like STPs but NFJs really not, I rarely have that negative reaction on people like I had on few INFJs I met. That's why the idea of grouping NPs and NJs sounds okay, and not NFs and NTs.
 

Thalassa

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Hmm. From switching the middle two letters we get ISTP, whom I really don't have a problem with.

ESTJs, who would be my complete opposite, not so much. In fact, I would probably stereotype ESTJ as the people with whom I've had the most IRL conflict.

I think, somewhat similar to Chloee with her NJ typing, I've actually had more problems with NTJs than STPs. In fact, the only SPs who bother me at all are ESFPs, and that's mainly because in large doses they can be freaking annoying.

ETA: Actually, I feel a need to qualify the comment about ESFPs. They can be really cool and nice. I actually have a couple of ESFP friends, and I probably even dated one or two. It's just that they'll be loud when I need them to be quiet, or they'll want to talk too much when I need space. I like them, but they aren't the ideal person for me to spend a large amount of time with.
 

Into It

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The way you have it set up doesn't make sense to me. I will tell you what makes sense to me, and I don't know if I am agreeing or disagreeing with popular theory.

If you are an ISTJ, Si-dominant, your shadow will use Se. I have come to this conclusion by noticing that my Ne is always connected with Ni. I get small Ni flashes and 'feelings' to accompany my constant Ne.

Sure, it looks nice to line up all eight functions and reverse them, but I don't think it is that simple, and I don't buy it. Your functions are paired together, you use Si WITH Te. You use Fi With Ne, in a Fi-dominant manner. I think it would make the most sense for a shadow not to be reversing the letters, (ISTJ > ENFP), not to reverse the functions (ISTJ > INFJ), but to reverse the introversion and extroversion on each of your four dominant functions, which just happen to be your next four functions, in order. I think within each group of four there are two pair, the lower being inferior, and within the whole there is one pair (comprised of two groups of four functions each), the lower of which is inferior and rarely switched to.

That would mean you are on the right track by saying you switch the middle two letters- but you are not quite right. In your example,
Si>Te>Fi>Ne> Se>Ti>Fe>Ni becomes

Ni>Fe>Ti>Se> Ne>Fi>Te>Si.

But in the bold sections, I see no reason why your shadow would 'reverse' the order of your functions, making the weakest one dominant and the fifth one weakest. It makes more sense to invert the Introversion and Extroversion of each function, and then apply it. That means....

Si>Te>Fi>Ne becomes
Se>Ti>Fe>Ni.

In this manner, an introvert's shadow is extroverted, and vise versa. It uses the "other part" of the dominant faculty and so on down the chain. The formula is to reverse the first and last letters, which is why I said you were on the right track.
ISTJ > ESTP

With your method, my shadow would be an ESTP. I...really don't think it is. I have only one time been so crushed that my personality totally changed. I used Ni and Fe at the time, constantly seeing long-term visions of peoples likely actions and how I felt about them. It was very, very different from anything else I have experienced.
 

NewEra

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The way you have it set up doesn't make sense to me. I will tell you what makes sense to me, and I don't know if I am agreeing or disagreeing with popular theory.

If you are an ISTJ, Si-dominant, your shadow will use Se. I have come to this conclusion by noticing that my Ne is always connected with Ni. I get small Ni flashes and 'feelings' to accompany my constant Ne.

Sure, it looks nice to line up all eight functions and reverse them, but I don't think it is that simple, and I don't buy it. Your functions are paired together, you use Si WITH Te. You use Fi With Ne, in a Fi-dominant manner. I think it would make the most sense for a shadow not to be reversing the letters, (ISTJ > ENFP), not to reverse the functions (ISTJ > INFJ), but to reverse the introversion and extroversion on each of your four dominant functions, which just happen to be your next four functions, in order. I think within each group of four there are two pair, the lower being inferior, and within the whole there is one pair (comprised of two groups of four functions each), the lower of which is inferior and rarely switched to.

That would mean you are on the right track by saying you switch the middle two letters- but you are not quite right. In your example,
Si>Te>Fi>Ne> Se>Ti>Fe>Ni becomes

Ni>Fe>Ti>Se> Ne>Fi>Te>Si.

But in the bold sections, I see no reason why your shadow would 'reverse' the order of your functions, making the weakest one dominant and the fifth one weakest. It makes more sense to invert the Introversion and Extroversion of each function, and then apply it. That means....

Si>Te>Fi>Ne becomes
Se>Ti>Fe>Ni.

In this manner, an introvert's shadow is extroverted, and vise versa. It uses the "other part" of the dominant faculty and so on down the chain. The formula is to reverse the first and last letters, which is why I said you were on the right track.
ISTJ > ESTP

With your method, my shadow would be an ESTP. I...really don't think it is. I have only one time been so crushed that my personality totally changed. I used Ni and Fe at the time, constantly seeing long-term visions of peoples likely actions and how I felt about them. It was very, very different from anything else I have experienced.

You bring about a very good point. I actually wasn't arguing for INFJ to be the shadow type of ISTJ, I just noticed it had the opposite function order. Anyway, I made a thread once asking if I was ever extroverted. There was a point in my life where I was so intensely stressed, and I wanted to have the energy of people and be around more people to overcome that stress. I was almost certainly extroverted and carefree/laid back/non-scheduled P... ESTP. In fact the thread of that is here: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/what-s-my-type/16289-i-extroverted-before.html
 

Mondo

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From the functional standpoint, that makes sense.

However, I always considered myself to have a lot in common with ESFP's. They are also social, laidback, and have a rebellious/playful streak.

I would actually say my true opposite is the ISTJ.
It's the type I relate to the least.
However, that doesn't mean I'm not a T.
 

Chloe

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so you think that ENFPs shadow are INFJs?

that is also what I'm saying - but basically all types that have 5th-8th function as 1st-4th are shadow types, which are for NFPs and STJs -STPs and NFJs.
 

NewEra

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so you think that ENFPs shadow are INFJs?

that is also what I'm saying - but basically all types that have 5th-8th function as 1st-4th are shadow types, which are for NFPs and STJs -STPs and NFJs.

Right, that's what Into It and I are saying. I've found this true in real life.
 

Athenian200

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so you think that ENFPs shadow are INFJs?

that is also what I'm saying - but basically all types that have 5th-8th function as 1st-4th are shadow types, which are for NFPs and STJs -STPs and NFJs.

That actually mirrors Socionic quadra theory very well.

Socionic quadras look (very, very, roughly) like this:

Alpha:

NTP, SFJ

Beta:

STJ, NFP

Gamma:

NTJ, SFP

Delta:

STP, NFJ
 

Chloe

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That actually mirrors Socionic quadra theory very well.

yeah, i noticed that with (I)NFJs (don't get along with them) but STPs not (for now, I didn't look around much!)...

LOL, just realized you're INFJ, ... well, there could be exceptions :D


p.s. i thought NFPs were Delta :confused: but it's not really important... so 1st and 3th Quadras don't get along, right? and 2nd and 4th? (in theory of course)
 

Athenian200

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yeah, i noticed that with (I)NFJs (don't get along with them) but STPs not (for now, I didn't look around much!)...

LOL, just realized you're INFJ, ... well, there could be exceptions :D

Well, there could be. I know that I've met a lot of INFPs I really didn't like. There were also a few that I did. Let's hope I'm an exception.

p.s. i thought NFPs were Delta :confused: but it's not really important... so 1st and 3th Quadras don't get along, right? and 2nd and 4th? (in theory of course)

Actually, it doesn't translate well into MBTI. ;)

INFJs and ENFPs are Delta, INFPs and ENFJs are Beta, supposedly. People map the types from the different systems differently.
 

NewEra

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Socionic quadras look (very, very, roughly) like this:

Alpha:

NTP, SFJ

Beta:

STJ, NFP

Gamma:

NTJ, SFP

Delta:

STP, NFJ

So what does this exactly mean? I mean I see you grouped them, but what about this? Just want to know what it means.
 

BlackCat

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Socionic quadras can't really be related to MBTI. If we made MBTI quadras that would be a different story, but people can be different socionics types than MBTI types, so it just gets messy when you use this. An example is that I'm an ISFj, a Gamma quadra member in socionics, but I'm INFP in MBTI. I also know an INFP that's an ENTp in socionics, my conflictor. It all just varies.

Making MBTI quadras has been on my list of ideas for a while to make. I've just been busy with school. I think it's as useful as temperament for determining your type. I've also wanted to make MBTI relationships... but anyways (not to derail).

As for the OP's idea, this theory is true for me. I would call them "opposites" while the totally reversed letters "conflicting". People with the middle two swapped have their brains set up in the same fashion, an example is an ISTP and an INFP would both have Ji, Pe, Pi, Je. So we have similar thought styles in a way, and we can relate to each other with how we act and such. Also with this with an ISTP's functions an INFP wouldn't really dislike them, but wouldn't find any common ground due to having no functions in common. So it's pretty much a neutral interaction. With opposite type interactions it can be "conflicting" because you are seeing your weaknesses thrown in your face.
 

Athenian200

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Socionic quadras can't really be related to MBTI. If we made MBTI quadras that would be a different story, but people can be different socionics types than MBTI types, so it just gets messy when you use this. An example is that I'm an ISFj, a Gamma quadra member in socionics, but I'm INFP in MBTI. I also know an INFP that's an ENTp in socionics, my conflictor. It all just varies.

Making MBTI quadras has been on my list of ideas for a while to make. I've just been busy with school. I think it's as useful as temperament for determining your type. I've also wanted to make MBTI relationships... but anyways (not to derail).

As for the OP's idea, this theory is true for me. I would call them "opposites" while the totally reversed letters "conflicting". People with the middle two swapped have their brains set up in the same fashion, an example is an ISTP and an INFP would both have Ji, Pe, Pi, Je. So we have similar thought styles in a way, and we can relate to each other with how we act and such. Also with this with an ISTP's functions an INFP wouldn't really dislike them, but wouldn't find any common ground due to having no functions in common. So it's pretty much a neutral interaction. With opposite type interactions it can be "conflicting" because you are seeing your weaknesses thrown in your face.

I did say it was a very rough mapping. ;)

I don't actually think they can be translated either, I was just trying to convey the idea of what quadras do in Socionics.
 

Into It

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socionics says I should get along best with ISTPs. I love ISTPs :D.
And its analysis of ENTPs and ESTPs relationship with me is spot on.
 

Chloe

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I red in one socionics book "whatever you know about MBTI you should forget before reading on Socionics"..

well... they certainly ask too much! :mellow:

they're cocky! :mellow:
 

Matthew_Z

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In my experience, I've observed that many people have developed both the introverted and extroverted form of one of their functions. (In Ps, usually their perceiving function; in Js, usually their judging function) The traditional ordering of functions for each type is more of a rough outline rather than an exact formula.

In short, the current relation between the Jungian cognitive functions(hereafter JCF) and MBTI is too sketchy. (This includes the shadow functions theory.) Even if we went about determining the opposite type by changing the ordering of the JCFs, the new ordering would still have something in common with the original ordering. Regardless of how they are reorganized, they still have something in common. In my opinion, the best "opposite" type is one with all of the letters inverted. (IE: The opposite of ISTJ would be ENFP.)
 

Eric B

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We could still use the Quadra names and concepts for the corresponding MBTI groups (just keeping in mind the j/p switch for introverts), and I think that would be a good shorthand for differentiating the various cognitive preferences. You can also regroup them according to the individual process tandems, which is what I did here: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...lity-matrices/14018-process-tandem-names.html (though this was before I discovered the Socionics quadras). Each quadra is basically a combination of its two process tandems.
 

Mondo

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I don't meant to digress from this set of opposites.
But what do people think of Keirsey opposites?

They would be the following

ENTP/ISTJ
INTP/ESTJ
ENFP/ISTP
INFP/ESTP
ENTJ/ISFJ
INTJ/ESFJ
ENFJ/ISFP
INFJ/ESFP

Does this make sense from a behavioral perspective?
For example, Keirsey argues that the ENTP (Inventor) would have the hardest time taking the role of an ISTJ (Inspector) and vice versa.
 
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