Exact opposite types

[Athenian200]

(just keeping in mind the j/p switch for introverts)

That isn't a valid concept.

 

[Matthew_Z]

I don't meant to digress from this set of opposites.
But what do people think of Keirsey opposites?

They would be the following

ENTP/ISTJ
INTP/ESTJ
ENFP/ISTP
INFP/ESTP
ENTJ/ISFJ
INTJ/ESFJ
ENFJ/ISFP
INFJ/ESFP

Does this make sense from a behavioral perspective?
For example, Keirsey argues that the ENTP (Inventor) would have the hardest time taking the role of an ISTJ (Inspector) and vice versa.

Source? I don't recall any such opposites being described by Keirsey like that.

To answer your specific question, I don't think it'd be too hard take the role of an ENTP when compared to the difficulty of taking on the job of, say, an ENFP or ESFP. While the ENTP is the hardest of the NTs for me to relate to, the common T eases the task just a slight bit.

 

[Mondo]

Source? I don't recall any such opposites being described by Keirsey like that.

To answer your specific question, I don't think it'd be too hard take the role of an ENTP when compared to the difficulty of taking on the job of, say, an ENFP or ESFP. While the ENTP is the hardest of the NTs for me to relate to, the common T eases the task just a slight bit.

He talks about this in his newest book "Brains and Careers".

He has the Rationals and Guardians opposing each other and the Idealists and Artisans opposing each other. I personally don't know if that's always the case.. but that's just what he says.

 

[Matthew_Z]

He talks about this in his newest book "Brains and Careers".

He has the Rationals and Guardians opposing each other and the Idealists and Artisans opposing each other. I personally don't know if that's always the case.. but that's just what he says.

That's certainly an interesting pairing. I can see the basis in the N vs S, but I can't quite see why he does an F vs P and T vs J pairing.

 

[Mondo]

That's certainly an interesting pairing. I can see the basis in the N vs S, but I can't quite see why he does an F vs P and T vs J pairing.

It's interesting how he does it.
He separates the temperaments into his own groups.

First you have
Rationals: INTJ, INTP, ENTJ, ENTP
Guardians: ISTJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ESFJ
Artisans: ISTP, ISFP, ESTP, ESFP
Idealists: INFJ, INFP, ENFJ, ENFP

He then has another set of four.

Initiators: ENTJ, ESTJ, ESTP, ENFJ (Extraverted and Directing)
Coworkers: ENTP, ESFJ, ESFP, ENFP (Extraverted and Informing)
Contenders: INTJ, ISTJ, ISTP, INFJ (Introverted and Directing)
Responders: INTP, ISFJ, ISFP, INFP (Introverted and Informing)

The directing types are more comfortable with taking on leadership roles than the informing types.

Initiators are the most different from Responders.
Coworkers are the most different from Contenders.
Rationals are the most different from Guardians.
Artisans are the most different from Idealists.

This is how he has his new set of opposite types.
It won't be in Please Understand Me II- this is a fairly new idea of his.

 

[Queen Kat]

According to a Cognitive Function Test I took lately, I am Ne>Fi>Ni>Se>Ti>Te>Fe>Si, so my exact opposite would be ISFJ. That could be wuite possible, because we usually don't seem to like each other.

 

[Eric B]

It's interesting how he does it.
He separates the temperaments into his own groups.

First you have
Rationals: INTJ, INTP, ENTJ, ENTP
Guardians: ISTJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ESFJ
Artisans: ISTP, ISFP, ESTP, ESFP
Idealists: INFJ, INFP, ENFJ, ENFP

He then has another set of four.

Initiators: ENTJ, ESTJ, ESTP, ENFJ (Extraverted and Directing)
Coworkers: ENTP, ESFJ, ESFP, ENFP (Extraverted and Informing)
Contenders: INTJ, ISTJ, ISTP, INFJ (Introverted and Directing)
Responders: INTP, ISFJ, ISFP, INFP (Introverted and Informing)

The directing types are more comfortable with taking on leadership roles than the informing types.

Initiators are the most different from Responders.
Coworkers are the most different from Contenders.
Rationals are the most different from Guardians.
Artisans are the most different from Idealists.

This is how he has his new set of opposite types.
It won't be in Please Understand Me II- this is a fairly new idea of his.

He talks about this in his newest book "Brains and Careers".

WHOOAH!!! So he's adopted the Interaction Styles now? (with his own names). I'll have to check this out! While he is the one who first introduced "role-directive/informative" in the eight intelligence types (without dividing them by E/I), I've never heard that he ever considered Berens' groupings.
Of course, she also has a cross-factor, Process vs outcome, (formerly movement vs control) that ties together those "opposites".

That isn't a valid concept. [re: Socionics j/p switch]

Not sure what exactly you mean, but what I was saying was that if we call the MBTI NTP/SFJ "Alphas", we have to remember that in Socionics, it corresponds to ESFj, ENTp, ISFp, INTj. Same first two functions. Of course, the other six are in a different order, but as type (at least in MBTI) is really determined by the first two (and the other six are not unanimously certain), then we can use the names to refer to types having the first two or their MBTI tandem mates in common.

 

[Mondo]

WHOOAH!!! So he's adopted the Interaction Styles now? (with his own names). I'll have to check this out! While he is the one who first introduced "role-directive/informative" in the eight intelligence types (without dividing them by E/I), I've never heard that he ever considered Berens' groupings.
Of course, she also has a cross-factor, Process vs outcome, (cormerly movement vs control) that ties together those "opposites".


Not sure what exactly you mean, but what I was saying was that if we call the MBTI NTP/SFJ "Alphas", we have to remember that in Socionics, it corresponds to ESFj, ENTp, ISFp, INTj. Same first two functions. Of course, the other six are in a different order, but as type (at least in MBTI) is really determined by the first two (and the other six are not unanimously certain), then we can use the names to refer to types having the first two or their MBTI tandem mates in common.

Wow.. yea.. this is Berens' groupings. He considers them to be important in terms of the natural roles the personality types take in society.
On an certain level, it makes a lot of sense to me..

 

[Saslou]

I don't meant to digress from this set of opposites.
But what do people think of Keirsey opposites?

They would be the following

ENTP/ISTJ
INTP/ESTJ
ENFP/ISTP
INFP/ESTP
ENTJ/ISFJ
INTJ/ESFJ
ENFJ/ISFP
INFJ/ESFP

Does this make sense from a behavioral perspective?
For example, Keirsey argues that the ENTP (Inventor) would have the hardest time taking the role of an ISTJ (Inspector) and vice versa.

Most people will say this is a huge NO NO .. I did enjoy dating this type as it was a challenge and i learnt so much. I think though from the INTJ perspective though, this required to much effort.
I'd try again with this type even though chances are it wouldn't be long term.

 

[Athenian200]

Not sure what exactly you mean, but what I was saying was that if we call the MBTI NTP/SFJ "Alphas", we have to remember that in Socionics, it corresponds to ESFj, ENTp, ISFp, INTj. Same first two functions. Of course, the other six are in a different order, but as type (at least in MBTI) is really determined by the first two (and the other six are not unanimously certain), then we can use the names to refer to types having the first two or their MBTI tandem mates in common.

Oh. Well, I guess that's worth remembering. I just meant that it wasn't really valid to go around saying that because of functions, the J/P switch is always valid. It really isn't. MBTI INFJs aren't always going to be Socionic INFps because of function order, for instance.

Although I guess since my point was to give the idea rather than be accurate, one good oversimplification deserves another. Let's just go ahead with your reasoning for now.

 

[Sol_]

I've been interested in this opposite/shadow type thing.

You may try to make an experiment. Watch people of wich type look more interesting and intriguing for you, but not ordinary and understandable. These people are your real opposite, in practice.