Are there many IJ's or EP's?

[lukin4intellect]

so Ive been thinking about this, and the J is a very extroverted trait whereas P is a very internal thing. Is this true? if so, there's probably very few IJ's and EP's right? meaning it goes against an I's nature to be a J and an E's nature to be a P.

what do you think?

 

[Matthew_Z]

Hello, I'm an IJ. Pleased to meet you.

 

[Virtual ghost]

so Ive been thinking about this, and the J is a very extroverted trait whereas P is a very internal thing. Is this true? if so, there's probably very few IJ's and EP's right? meaning it goes against an I's nature to be a J and an E's nature to be a P.

what do you think?

Did you ever heard for something call " Doing things in the background" ?Because that is exactly that IJs are doing most of the time.

Whle EPs are chaotic and all over the place.


I am sorry but your argument does not stand. I presume you didn't saw the arrangement of types in popualtion ?

 

[simulatedworld]

No, that's an oversimplification. The orientation of the judging process pointed externally and the perception process inwardly is true of Judgers, not everyone.

MBTI posits that one of your top two functions (a Judging process T/F and a Perceiving process N/S) will be used to govern your inner world and the other directed externally toward relating to others/objects outside the self.

So Js direct their T/F outwardly in the form of Te/Fe, and by process of elimination they direct perception inwardly using Si/Ni. This tends to give them an appearance of being outwardly organized, but they do have a non-judgmental side that considers different possibilities--it's just kept internally and doesn't see the light of day much. (This is why people who are dominant in the introverted process show characteristics of social introversion--people in the external world can't really witness or fully understand one's introverted processes.)

But Ps are just the opposite--we extrovert the perceptive process with Ne/Se and introvert the judging one with Ti/Fi. Thus we appear outwardly less organized than Js, but inside we are often much more rigid and unyielding.

Four simple steps, let's say you're ESFJ:

1) Middle two letters SF tell us your best two processes are forms of Sensing and Feeling.
2) J at the end tells us you direct the Judging process externally, so we know you use Fe.
3) By process of elimination your other best process much be Si.
4) E at the beginning tells us the extroverted function gets more time than the introverted one, thus you tend to appear very Fe-dominant to others. Thus you are Fe dominant and Si auxiliary, or Fe+Si. (An ISFJ would use the same functions but give more weight to Si, making him Si+Fe. He still appears outwardly organized, but spends more time in quiet reflection on Si than ESFJ.)

On the less common occasions when you go into introverted reflection mode, you appear more Si-focused.

That's the theory anyway...up to you whether or not you buy it.

 

[raz]

so Ive been thinking about this, and the J is a very extroverted trait whereas P is a very internal thing. Is this true? if so, there's probably very few IJ's and EP's right? meaning it goes against an I's nature to be a J and an E's nature to be a P.

what do you think?

How is the J a very extraverted trait? Well, I guess you could say so since the IJ is consistently evaluating and structuring their environment around them. That doesn't mean they're more extraverted than the IPs. It's just that the IJs spend their time in the external world CHANGING the external world. The IP spends their time just experiencing and internalizing the external world.

Basically, to an IJ, their introverted process tells them what to do. Their extraverted judging process tells them how to go about doing it more or less. As an ISTJ, I "feel" more extraverted because Si litters my internal world with sensational impressions of the external world, keeping me attached to the external world. My Te points me outward in the form of judgment, giving me the philosophy that the outside world must be controlled. So, Si keeps me attached to the world and Te makes me constantly crave control of the external world. It makes an ISTJ think they're more extraverted than they really are.

It's different for IPs since they're not so actively engaged in the external world. I mean, how does Ji work? Are Ps really that rigid internally? I only pass judgment on my thoughts if it doesn't coincide with Te.

 

[Halla74]

Hello, ESTP here, alive and well.

 

[Valiant]

Funny thought hit me... EPs have more in common with each other than they have with others in their subgroups.

If you look at ESFP, ESTP, ENTP and ENFP they all seem to share common characteristics that define their very beings.

- Happy-go-lucky.
- Inspiring, in the sense that they make people do stupid shit because it is funny.
- Odd way of thinking, for sure.
- Party animals?
- ...Brief sexual relations?
- ...Tremendously great sex? At least the ones I've been with.
- Authority problems
- Easily bored
- Would rather go skydiving or bungeejumping than staying at home, even if they're lying on their death bed
- Causes general chaos
- Stirs up problems, just because it is fun to watch people go nuts

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Repartition of each type in the american population:

ISTJ= 11.6 %
ISFJ= 13.8 %
INFJ= 1.5%
INTJ= 2.1%

IJ= 29%

ESTP= 4.3%
ESFP= 8.5%
ENFP= 8.1%
ENTP= 3.2%

EP= 24.1%

 

[Athenian200]

Yes. ISJs are the most common, actually (INJs aren't, really). Our dominant function is actually Ni or Si, a perceiving function. We just use our J to interact with the outer world. If we get to a point that we're not interacting with the outer world much, our behavior becomes more P in an introverted way (like reading books, daydreaming, reminiscing, listening to music, or watching TV) except for the few "J" tasks we still perform outwardly.

 

[Laurie]

E and P are my two strongest traits. Scary stuff!

 

[NewEra]

so Ive been thinking about this, and the J is a very extroverted trait whereas P is a very internal thing. Is this true? if so, there's probably very few IJ's and EP's right? meaning it goes against an I's nature to be a J and an E's nature to be a P.

what do you think?

Not at all. In fact IJ's can be very introverted, and EP's are arguably the most extroverted types. And ISFJ is the LEADING type among females, ISTJ among males. Look at the stats which Speed Gavroche provided.

 

[simulatedworld]

btw, Jung called ExxP and IxxJ the "irrational" types because they lead with a perceiving function.

It may seem odd that IxxJ types lead with a Perceiving process, but that's because their Judgment is still directed externally/Perception internally, and this is what makes them Js.

Introverts are interesting, though, because they lead with a function that is opposite of the J/P at the end of their type.

Jung says that ExxJ and IxxP are the "rational" types, because they lead with a Judging function.

(He did not, by the way, mean this in a negative light. Jung typed himself as Ni+Te, or INTJ in MBTI terms.)

 

[hommefatal]

Types are general. It wouldn't make sense if there were huge differences. E/I is independent, N is often more intelligent than S, F/T translates like female/male, and J/P is independent as well.

 

[nightning]

I am confused by your comment in the OP.

Why is J an extroverted trait? And P an introverted one?

Judgments can be made both externally and internally. Similarly perception occurs both for the external environment and within yourself.

 

[BlackCat]

E/I is independent

J/P is independent as well.

What do you mean by independent?

N is often more intelligent than S

This is so untrue on so many levels...

F/T translates like female/male

No not really.

 

[Halla74]

Funny thought hit me... EPs have more in common with each other than they have with others in their subgroups.

If you look at ESFP, ESTP, ENTP and ENFP they all seem to share common characteristics that define their very beings.

- Happy-go-lucky.
- Inspiring, in the sense that they make people do stupid shit because it is funny.
- Odd way of thinking, for sure.
- Party animals?
- ...Brief sexual relations?
- ...Tremendously great sex? At least the ones I've been with.
- Authority problems
- Easily bored
- Would rather go skydiving or bungeejumping than staying at home, even if they're lying on their death bed
- Causes general chaos
- Stirs up problems, just because it is fun to watch people go nuts

Hey YLJ!

Please don't forget that ESTPs are the best looking.

Thank you.



-A.

 

[Nighthawk]

Four simple steps, let's say you're ESFJ:

1) Middle two letters SF tell us your best two processes are forms of Sensing and Feeling.
2) J at the end tells us you direct the Judging process externally, so we know you use Fe.
3) By process of elimination your other best process much be Si.
4) E at the beginning tells us the extroverted function gets more time than the introverted one, thus you tend to appear very Fe-dominant to others. Thus you are Fe dominant and Si auxiliary, or Fe+Si. (An ISFJ would use the same functions but give more weight to Si, making him Si+Fe. He still appears outwardly organized, but spends more time in quiet reflection on Si than ESFJ.)

Thank you ... that is one of the best explanations of this that I've seen so far. It was always somewhat of a mystery to me.

 

[raz]

Don't we have threads that give definitions for MBTI newbies? It just seems some of the things said in this thread are stated in the beginning of a lot of the books. I mean, if we don't, I wouldn't mind doing it with the help of some others. No offense to the posters, it'd just help with some thread clutter.

 

[lukin4intellect]

Good posts all, & good info.

I was missing the piece about Js juding themselves and P's perceving outwardly. But I guess my experience has also been with J's judging others (why would you judge yourself) and P's just keeping things to themseleves.

I have so many of these "patterns" I have observed over time ... yeah they're not backed up by research (I only work at Microsoft not own it ).

Maybe I'll write a book on these some day.

 

[simulatedworld]

Don't we have threads that give definitions for MBTI newbies? It just seems some of the things said in this thread are stated in the beginning of a lot of the books. I mean, if we don't, I wouldn't mind doing it with the help of some others. No offense to the posters, it'd just help with some thread clutter.

Boo, who cares about organizing the external environment?

Thread clutter ftw!