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  1. #71
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Most of Europe, excluding Italy and a few others, would be Introverted. In these it's not common to start conversations with strangers in most situations, and when strangers have to talk it's far more often formal and stilted than in Extroverted cultures, in which a sense of familiarity is garnered very quickly. The same is true, so I hear, of China and Japan. The USA and Italy have among the most famously Extroverted cultures, others being the African countries I'm aware of (e.g. Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria all extremely friendly in public).

    France: ISFP. Famous for the importance placed on visual arts, fashion and cuisine, and has a collaboratively rebellious streak (the Revolution, frequent cross-industry strike action etc.)

    Lebanon: ESFP. Extremely fashion-conscious and stylish with a high demand for plastic surgery. The party capital of the Middle East. Chaotic roads with drivers not knowing the few rules and the police, until very recently, not caring about them either. Friendly and warm in public.

    England: IXFJ. Particularly emphasised values include propriety, tact/inoffensiveness and modesty. Like to support an underdog over a hot favourite, even if the underdog isn't very good. Literature is probably the most respected artform (N) and there's a strong tendency to romanticise or long for the past without ignoring or forgetting its faults (S).
    Sure we're not as J as Germany but who is? The drive to arrange ourselves into orderly queues at every opportunity gives us away.

    Scotland: ESTP. Reputation for high levels of alcohol abuse, poor dietary habits and crime, and for people being outspoken, straight-forward and blunt.

    Ireland: ENFP. Sociable, upbeat, stories and poetry important, tendency to not take themselves or authority figures too seriously yet is one of the most religious countries in Europe.

    USA: ESFJ. Being less than outgoing and not wearing your heart on your sleeve is almost pathologised; extremely patriotic and in love with tradition (both the left and the right). Hard-working and concerned with other people's private lives (both celebrities' and politicians'). S probably wins out but N is also very prominent, especially historically. Quite well balanced in that area.

    Germany: ISTJ. I agree with Lightyear, based on the perceptions we Brits have of it.


    And Lightyear is absolutely right that alcohol changes everything for a growing number of Britons, our drunken alter ego being an unhealthy ESTP. The binge drinking epidemic is supposedly much worse for us than any other European nation, but there's no general consensus as to why.

  2. #72
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    I don't agree with too many of these, no way Germany is ISFP. Germany is the quintessential Guardian country; rules, rules, rules; very organized, perfectionist and efficient; not rocking the boat but trying to keep things as they always were; insanely security concious; worrying too much and being pessimistic, thinking about everything that could go wrong and trying to avoid it by creating more rules.
    Miss Merkel is not amused:

    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #73
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I'm curious as to where you are from originally (if not NZ) and whether you found it weird/difficult? Unfortunately, I've been unimpressed by the Aussies and Kiwis I've met here to the extent that I've started to feel like I'm prejudiced against those nationalities, which is bad (especially when you make assumptions about people when you've just met them) and really goes against my principles. I try to look at people as individuals rather than as a group, which definitely helps (groups of people are much easier to dislike than individuals, I find), but then some people make it hard for you to look at them as anything but a group!!

    I really hope Iím not prejudiced against ESTP/ESFP, but when so many people seem to have so little interest in activities which donít involve alcohol, and lots of it, wellÖ
    I think London tends to bring out the worst in Aussies, Kiwis and Saffas. I'm told there's a ray gun in Heathrow which subtracts 40 IQ points, instills a raging thirst and inflated sense of patriotism in new antipodean arrivals. It also predisposes them to seek out bartending jobs.

    Actually I think part of the problem (there are a few bigger, more obvious ones) is that most Aussies come from urban areas and when they go overseas they feel they have to act out an "outback Aussie" persona in order to live up to expectations. So they drink a lot, make too much noise, exaggerate perceived Aussie traits (eg confidence, machismo, irreverence, informality) and generally act obnoxiously. Mostly in groups where they attempt to out-Aussie one another. Sorry about that. If it's any consolation they are often haunted by guilt once they return to Aus.

    When my parents travelled around Europe in the 70s they told everyone they were kiwis because Aussies had such a terrible reputation. Sounds like the kiwis have caught up, which surprises me I must admit.

  4. #74
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    When my parents travelled around Europe in the 70s they told everyone they were kiwis because Aussies had such a terrible reputation. Sounds like the kiwis have caught up, which surprises me I must admit.
    Me too. The Kiwi accent makes them sound a lot more uptight and formal for some reason. Whether their culture lead to that manner of speaking or the manner of speaking developed for other reasons and sounds uptight coincidentally, I'm not sure, but I've also never seen a Kiwi act like a stereotypical Aussi (perhaps because I don't live in London and they've all been teachers and soap characters...).

  5. #75
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post

    Scotland: ESTP. Reputation for high levels of alcohol abuse, poor dietary habits and crime, and for people being outspoken, straight-forward and blunt.
    I'd say xNTJ myself - not a P because it's not laser fare like France, it's pretty full on intense. The Scots don't let go their history, are pretty agressive and actually pretty invenetive - many inventions come from Scots - given it's a tiny country, they also pretty visionary (a fair few things we take forgranted were invented by the Scots).

    Great Scottish Inventors
    Category:Scottish inventors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  6. #76
    Senior Member Bushranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I'm curious as to where you are from originally (if not NZ) and whether you found it weird/difficult? Unfortunately, I've been unimpressed by the Aussies and Kiwis I've met here to the extent that I've started to feel like I'm prejudiced against those nationalities, which is bad (especially when you make assumptions about people when you've just met them) and really goes against my principles. I try to look at people as individuals rather than as a group, which definitely helps (groups of people are much easier to dislike than individuals, I find), but then some people make it hard for you to look at them as anything but a group!!

    I really hope Iím not prejudiced against ESTP/ESFP, but when so many people seem to have so little interest in activities which donít involve alcohol, and lots of it, wellÖ
    To an extent, these groups are self selecting. The more gregarious ones clump together and get rowdy, the rest go off alone and do their own thing. Large coherent groups of Australians are obnoxious both at home and overseas (but probably worse overseas, where certain inhibiting social pressures are absent).

    Australia is more introverted than extroverted (not massively so, but the balance definitely tips towards the I). We perceive ourselves as more extroverted than we are. When we try to project our "national identity" (ugh (considering my avatar I shouldn't really complain)), we come across as jingoistic and immature. It is fundamentally a failure of self perception.

    Also, a lot of us are arseholes and we have a big opinion of ourselves.
    I'll get you my pretty, and your little hermit crab too!

  7. #77
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I'd say xNTJ myself - not a P because it's not laser fare like France, it's pretty full on intense. The Scots don't let go their history, are pretty agressive and actually pretty invenetive - many inventions come from Scots - given it's a tiny country, they also pretty visionary (a fair few things we take forgranted were invented by the Scots).

    Great Scottish Inventors
    Category:Scottish inventors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Well, possibly. ESTPs are often intense too. A lot of inventors may have come from there but that doesn't mean their culture puts great emphasis on it or encourages novel thought in particular. Otherwise, wouldn't the rest of the world pick up on it as a typically Scottish value? I would actually say the USA, which I type as ESFJ with a strong N, displays much more enthusiasm and pride about its inventors, even going as far as claiming credit for a number of things it didn't invent. But maybe. The 'severe' manner and dare I mention thrift often attributed to the Scottish could easily be seen as NTJ.

  8. #78
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    Well, possibly. ESTPs are often intense too. A lot of inventors may have come from there but that doesn't mean their culture puts great emphasis on it or encourages novel thought in particular. Otherwise, wouldn't the rest of the world pick up on it as a typically Scottish value? I would actually say the USA, which I type as ESFJ with a strong N, displays much more enthusiasm and pride about its inventors, even going as far as claiming credit for a number of things it didn't invent.
    Stereo typical Scottishness and real Scottishness is different.... The culture is definately leans towards early adoption of new technology - way, way ahead of England. The Scots are ferouciously proud of any of their heros (they are scarily pro scots - to the point of over doing it ... and I'm Scottish ). It's a tiny population that hits way above thier fighting weight in term of global contribution.

    I'd say you are pretty spot on with the US typing, although I suspect the S may change in the next 50 years... the whole religious, squarness of values etc... I don't say that is a bad thing (unless it's taken to the point of narrow mindedness), my experiene of the US is that it is a damned sight better manered than the UK.

  9. #79
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I'd say you are pretty spot on with the US typing, although I suspect the S may change in the next 50 years... the whole religious, squarness of values etc... I don't say that is a bad thing (unless it's taken to the point of narrow mindedness), my experiene of the US is that it is a damned sight better manered than the UK.
    Interesting point that, it's a strange phenomenon. Good manners here are measured differently than across the pond. My theory is, England - and perhaps the rest of the UK, but certainly England - has more formal social standards and rules than the USA, and these have the double effect of making us more irritable with suppressed emotion, and acting as a cover for irritable or mean-spirited outbursts. People feel safer to vent frustration or be nasty because they've got their more restrictive and elaborate social niceties to compensate with and to accuse the other person of breaching. The Houses of Parliament, with their Right Honourable this and Noble Lord that, being a fine example. And although its members can come across as downright immature and opportunistic in their exchanges with each other, I have to say I don't envy the reverence Americans are expected to show for high-ranking politicians, whom I think should be treated as the employees that they are.

  10. #80
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    Interesting point that, it's a strange phenomenon. Good manners here are measured differently than across the pond. My theory is, England - and perhaps the rest of the UK, but certainly England - has more formal social standards and rules than the USA, and these have the double effect of making us more irritable with suppressed emotion, and acting as a cover for irritable or mean-spirited outbursts. People feel safer to vent frustration or be nasty because they've got their more restrictive and elaborate social niceties to compensate with and to accuse the other person of breaching. The Houses of Parliament, with their Right Honourable this and Noble Lord that, being a fine example. And although its members can come across as downright immature and opportunistic in their exchanges with each other, I have to say I don't envy the reverence Americans are expected to show for high-ranking politicians, whom I think should be treated as the employees that they are.
    Stereo typical Englashman doesn't exists anymore, probably since the 60's/70's... Old money and distinguished people are probably 1-2% of the entire population. Think rude, poorly mannered lager lout and you have the average 25 year old - foot ball fans who are particulalrly unpleasant... even its a bit of a generalisation but truer than I think your perception is likely to be.

    The well heeled, gentleman is an exceptionately rare breed, and the upper classes etc are probably 1-2% of the population

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