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  1. #1
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Default Why are the groupings.....

    SJ - NF - NT - SJ and not SF - NF - NT - ST ?


    I've always wondered why S gets paired with the last letter, but N gets paired with the 3rd one.
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  2. #2
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    I don't know how to better explain this so here's my attempt...

    N already makes you unconventional regardless of J/P

    However with the S types Ps are generally more unconventional so you cant mix SPs and SJs

    Oh and vice versa of course....

    There are other factors too but all you really need to do is imagine this as a grouping

    ESTJ
    ESTP
    ISTJ
    ISTP

    See the problem already?

  3. #3
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    ^that is indeed very true that they seem to clash, but that could only be due to old ways of categorizing sensors in general.....

    the real question is, what value is there in the ST/SF distinction over the current one?

  4. #4
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    ^that is indeed very true that they seem to clash, but that could only be due to old ways of categorizing sensors in general.....

    the real question is, what value is there in the ST/SF distinction over the current one?
    Thank you. I've been struggling all morning with a reply to express what I thought, and you've summed up my reaction just right.
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  5. #5
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    All of this is true but there is one more thing.

    Why don't split Ns on NPs and NJs ? (Ne/Ni divide)

  6. #6
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    This is Keirsey's mapping of the ancient temperaments; by way of Kretschmer's character styles; to the MBTI. The ancient temperaments used a totally different framework (response delay vs sustain or introversion/extroversion vs people/task focus), and this did not include any sort of perception factor. When Kant first introduced a perception scale (Beauty, which was basically Sensing), it already began twisting the temperament matrix, with diametric opposites Sanguine and Melancholic now on the same side. So in the full MBTI, you would have this rift between S and N, with the other dichotomies (T/F, J/P) determining different things for each perceptive preference.
    The same thing happens with the Interaction Styles.
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  7. #7
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    They are divided that way based on observing human behavior and believing that an ISTJ for instance, has more in common with an ESFJ than an ISTP overall. That the basic motivations of most SJ types fit together better than ST types or SF types, etc. David Keirsey lined the Myers-Briggs types up with the theory of four temperaments espoused by many, and many students of his have continued those groupings.

    From a function type standpoint, SP and SJ makes sense because SPs have "Se" in common, and SJs have "Si" in common, but as Antisocial one points out, if you are going by function types, then NP and NJ make more sense as the other two groups.

    There's obviously different ways to divide these categories, but the SP-SJ-NF-NT is done by some very commonly observed behaviors shared by the types in each group.
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  8. #8
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    It is because S has to do with the real world, and J and P are what you do about it.
    N has to do with the expanded world. T and F are how you deal with it.
    An ESFP feels the real world, and wants it to stay open.
    An ESFJ feels the real world and wants to close it.
    An ENFP experiences the expanded world emotionally.
    An ENTP experiences the expanded world logically.

    Am I right people?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    All of this is true but there is one more thing.

    Why don't split Ns on NPs and NJs ? (Ne/Ni divide)
    Because ENFP's are quite similar to ENFJ's. I have real life experience.

  10. #10
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortabunt View Post
    It is because S has to do with the real world, and J and P are what you do about it.
    N has to do with the expanded world. T and F are how you deal with it.
    An ESFP feels the real world, and wants it to stay open.
    An ESFJ feels the real world and wants to close it.
    An ENFP experiences the expanded world emotionally.
    An ENTP experiences the expanded world logically.

    Am I right people?
    You got it sorta right, I always saw it that N was an inward thing (not expanded... that's just making Ns seem better than Ss like you seem to preach), and F and T are also inward, so N with T or F goes hand in hand. Sensing is an outward thing... it deals with the world and tangible things. J and P have to do with how you live and such, and you're living in this world, I dunno, SJ and SP work.

    I always thought NP, NJ, SP, SJ would work. But what they've got going right now is pretty good. I also thought IP, IJ, EP, EJ would be great too. Maybe EP, EJ, IP, IJ could be another temperament people could test for or research when they are checking their type... hmm.
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