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  1. #11
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortabunt View Post
    Because ENFP's are quite similar to ENFJ's. I have real life experience.
    Surely you jest


    I think ENTPs are more similar to ENFPs than ENFJs. Way more.

    So, yes, I don't get it either. Grouping NJs and NPs makes more sense in my opinion. If you are gonna have SJs and SPs in the first place, that is. Question of coherence.

    I relate so much more to Ne users in general than any other types.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    You got it sorta right, I always saw it that N was an inward thing (not expanded... that's just making Ns seem better than Ss like you seem to preach), and F and T are also inward, so N with T or F goes hand in hand. Sensing is an outward thing... it deals with the world and tangible things. J and P have to do with how you live and such, and you're living in this world, I dunno, SJ and SP work.

    I always thought NP, NJ, SP, SJ would work. But what they've got going right now is pretty good. I also thought IP, IJ, EP, EJ would be great too. Maybe EP, EJ, IP, IJ could be another temperament people could test for or research when they are checking their type... hmm.
    I said expanded because I couldn't come up with a better term.

  3. #13
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    The mapping dates back to an old greek system, called "Humoralpathologie" in german. Thats what Jung based his thing onto also. Guess they all thought the Greeks knew it best:

    Four Temperaments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    edit: as Eric B said
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #14
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post

    I always thought NP, NJ, SP, SJ would work. But what they've got going right now is pretty good. I also thought IP, IJ, EP, EJ would be great too. Maybe EP, EJ, IP, IJ could be another temperament people could test for or research when they are checking their type... hmm.
    APT's George Frisbie outlined those groups and called them the "sociability temperaments". (He was really against Keirsey's model for some reason).

    I have outlined IT, IF, ET, EF as "social image". Like three of the IT's are Chart the Course, or Melancholic. The INTP isn't, but they do look like it on the surface (because what you see on the surface is introversion and thinking, which is traditionally associated with the Melancholy), and often come out strong Melancholic on the Galen tests.
    The Interaction styles basically compose half of both groups; sociability groups for the N's and social image groups for the S's.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  5. #15
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I know why it is traditionally this way, but I think NJ NP SJ SP would make more sense both functionally and logically. I find INFJs more similar to INTJs than to INFPs, for instance (of course there are exceptions, borderline people, etc, but overall that is how they seem to me). I'm not sure if the same is true of extroverts necessarily, I don't know many Es very well. I do find ENFPs and ENTPs very similar (and both very different from ENxJs).

    Of course, that can only be from an outsider's perspective, and maybe you (Ns) perceive yourselves differently.
    -end of thread-

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I know why it is traditionally this way, but I think NJ NP SJ SP would make more sense both functionally and logically. I find INFJs more similar to INTJs than to INFPs, for instance (of course there are exceptions, borderline people, etc, but overall that is how they seem to me). I'm not sure if the same is true of extroverts necessarily, I don't know many Es very well. I do find ENFPs and ENTPs very similar (and both very different from ENxJs).

    Of course, that can only be from an outsider's perspective, and maybe you (Ns) perceive yourselves differently.
    what do you guys mean when you say 'similar'?

    what characteristics? ENTPs and ENFPs get along fabulously but i have never have to explain any of my musing to an ENTJ as i have to an ENFP

  7. #17
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I know why it is traditionally this way, but I think NJ NP SJ SP would make more sense both functionally and logically. I find INFJs more similar to INTJs than to INFPs, for instance (of course there are exceptions, borderline people, etc, but overall that is how they seem to me). I'm not sure if the same is true of extroverts necessarily, I don't know many Es very well. I do find ENFPs and ENTPs very similar (and both very different from ENxJs).

    Of course, that can only be from an outsider's perspective, and maybe you (Ns) perceive yourselves differently.
    Nope, you're correct, IMO.

    I've had my fingers crossed for a long time now that they'd do some temperament redistricting and group NJs and NPs (Strategists and Innovators, I'd call them).

    It would also do a lot for the whole NT=Logical, NF=Emo stereotype. Those stereotypes are centered around INTPs and INFPs, respectively, if I'm not mistaken. Then again, maybe INJs see the worst problems with the current system because we fall though the cracks a bit more than the others in our group (though I know a few ENPs have reported something similar).

  8. #18
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Here's a couple of essays suggesting the NP and NJ types:
    A New Look at the Keirsey Temperaments
    Keirsey's Mirror Temperaments
    They (plus SP/SJ) are held by Janet Germane.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  9. #19
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    what do you guys mean when you say 'similar'?

    what characteristics? ENTPs and ENFPs get along fabulously but i have never have to explain any of my musing to an ENTJ as i have to an ENFP
    Both very people-oriented, enthusiastic, excitable, like to debate, constantly inventing and sharing new ideas they thought up, always lots of enthusiasm but rarely anywhere near as much followthrough, often appear "flaky"/unreliable because something more interesting distracted them, etc etc. No stereotypes intended, just what I've observed casually, since I don't know many ENxPs very well.

    You know, mostly Ne stuff. If you feel more similar to ENTJs I can't argue with that, since I can only observe.
    -end of thread-

  10. #20
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I think ENTPs are more similar to ENFPs than ENFJs. Way more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I do find ENFPs and ENTPs very similar (and both very different from ENxJs).
    +1

    ENFPs and ENTPs are both cognitively and behaviorally similar, in my experience (which is a lot). ENFJs are more similar to ESFJs primarily and INFJs secondarily, and ENTJs to ESTJs primarily and INTJs secondarily.

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