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  1. #1

    Default Let's "level" about type issues

    I'll suggest, the following form:

    When:<something specific (within limits of anonymity) happens>
    I feel:<express you feelings using "I" statements>
    Because:<explain why you think it happens, perhaps use type theory since this an MBTI forum>

    Corny, I know. But I would appreciate if people humored me.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  2. #2

    Default I'll start off, to give an example

    When:People belittle the notions of Theory, elegance in design, and analysis as being impractical, unrealistic, a waste of time, or cold,

    I feel: marginalized, under-appreciated, held-back, or unfairly limited,

    Because: I have put a lot of time and thought into many of my theories.
    I think that people haven't taken the time to understand what I am talking about, look at the possibilities of use, or given a fair attempt at trying what I mentioned.
    I believe people haven't learned the universal value of correspondence, and coherence in thought, and try to confine it to "schoolwork" or "academia", and, if I'm lucky, to work (though, I am usually not lucky).
    I think, this is due to the fact that I am an INTP and most others are not. There are some who appreciate the same things I do, but they are rare In Real Life.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  3. #3
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I'll suggest, the following form:

    When:<something specific (within limits of anonymity) happens>
    I feel:<espress you feelings using "I" statements>
    Because:<explain why you think it happens, perhaps use type theory since this an MBTI forum>

    Corny, I know. But I would appreciate if people humored me.
    You misspelled "express" in the second line... oh, well.

    When: I read fantasy or scientific books...
    I feel: Fascinated, interested, curious.
    Because: My Ni is strongly attracted to abstract constructs, perhaps?

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    You misspelled "express" in the second line... oh, well.
    Thanks. I fixed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    When: I read fantasy or scientific books...
    I feel: Fascinated, interested, curious.
    Because: My Ni is strongly attracted to abstract constructs, perhaps?
    Not really related to conflicts, but I guess I didn't provide enough context.

    "Leveling" is usually related to getting things of ones chest. But I like the fact you humored me, at least.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #5
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Thanks. I fixed it.
    Don't mention it, I'm a tad obsessed with correctness in that department. (Surely you can relate, since you actually went back and fixed it.)

    Not really related to conflicts, but I guess I didn't provide enough context.
    Yes, context is very important. Without it, Te could mean Tellurium, a transposition of the Latin word "et," a truncation of the word "Tea," or Extraverted Thinking, and we wouldn't know which.
    "Leveling" is usually related to getting things of ones chest. But I like the fact you humored me, at least.
    Okay, let me try again:

    When: People disagree with me strongly for reasons that don't make any sense to me or my values.
    I feel: Miffed, but often apologize or pretend to agree unless I'm so vehement in my disagreement I have to say something.
    Because: NF's tend to avoid open conflict, until they're in a bad mood or something violates their ideas of right and wrong, then... well, you know.

  6. #6
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I'll suggest, the following form:

    When:<something specific (within limits of anonymity) happens>
    I feel:<express you feelings using "I" statements>
    Because:<explain why you think it happens, perhaps use type theory since this an MBTI forum>

    Corny, I know. But I would appreciate if people humored me.
    A most excellent suggestion if possibly doomed to be lost under too many stated problems and no discussion of answer or conclusion (possibly that's just me).

    When I stated something complex or with multiple conditions or something quite abstracted and all I get in response is "what on earth are you on about" or some kind of pat on the head response...

    I feel marginalised (love that word, forgotten about it for too long) and often really quite pissed off...

    Because, I've often spent many hours thinking about the subject and have a big ol' ball of string of ideas ravelling around my head. To try and unravel the string is a major job and something only usually achieved by many hours of chatting with others and going through some of the finer points so to have it dismissed or quashed under, what I perceive to be, judgemental (that's the common use of the word and not typist sentiments) and dismissive behaviour or closed minds who do not wish to put any effort into trying to understand why I would apparently waste my time and effort posting a ton of rubbish.

    PS. Mind you I equally dislike having so much effort ignored entirely and have it go by without note, so it's a bit catch 22
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #7
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    When: people belittle the notions of theory, elegance in design, and analysis as being impractical, unrealistic, a waste of time, or cold / I feel: marginalized, under-appreciated, held-back, or unfairly limited / I have put a lot of time and thought into many of my theories.
    That parallels the reasoning of INxPs who have been incensed by the rejection of a prized theory or conviction. If it is to be more than a thought, the worth of a theory can only be judged through its application. In certain circumstances a theory can be intellectually evaluated through contention; however, without testing, this is never practically dispositive. Since valuing an idea on the basis of time and effort invested is subjective, insisting on it is a conceit.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    When:People judge me for having Fi as my dominant function

    I feel: unfairly dismissed and relegated to some type of emo unthinking corner of the world.

    Because: I see logic in what I say, even if it comes from an emotional place.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    That parallels the reasoning of INxPs who have been incensed by the rejection of a prized theory or conviction. If it is to be more than a thought, the worth of a theory can only be judged through its application. In certain circumstances a theory can be intellectually evaluated through contention; however, without testing, this is never practically dispositive. Since valuing an idea on the basis of time and effort invested is subjective, insisting on it is a conceit.
    Point of clarification:

    I am not talking about the rejection of a particular theory or conviction. I am more than OK with that (I do plenty of it myself). Certainly testing is most important thing when it comes to correspondence or appropriateness. Contention can touch on appropriateness, but usually can only evaluate coherence and improve clarity of expression.

    I am talking about the rejection of Theory, elegance in design, or analysis in principle. Sayings like "theory is useless", or accusations of being "self-absorbed" for caring about "elegance", or the knee-jerk association of "cold" and "logical".

    Would this change your opinion?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    When:People judge me for having Fi as my dominant function

    I feel: unfairly dismissed and relegated to some type of emo unthinking corner of the world.

    Because: I see logic in what I say, even if it comes from an emotional place.
    I think many of your points are logical.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

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