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  1. #11
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Do you think its appropiate to type pin-up girls for "hot and not hot" and call it a typology ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #12
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpn View Post
    Thanks, Toonia .
    Those could be useful for me too.

    I haven't made much progress, gotten much traction, so I'm going to ramble a bit.

    I understand there's something called the Big Five. It roughly works like this: Say you created a 1000-question personality survey and gave it to a slice of the population. It would cover a wide territory of questions. After giving the survey, you found patterns: people who marked Question #7 as true also marked Question #19 as true 79% of the time. What you have is clustering. Further, you have 5 major clusters. The Big 5. Then you look at each cluster, try to get at its "character", and give a name to it. In Big 5 they are: Openness, Conscientiousness, Extraversion, Agreeableness, and Neuroticism. I don't know if that's how the Big Five actually came about, but in any case, it seems like a valid method.

    (*goes to read about Big 5* It looks like it has a more complicated history, but that this is essentially right.) So basically, Big 5 is empirical. At least, kind of. It relies a lot of time on self-report questionnaires (although how *would* you objectively know that a person has a certain personality trait?).

    OK, now Jung. I tried to read Psychological Types but it was rough going - I didn't integrate it that well. Basically, he seemed to arrive at Introversion/Extraversion, Sensing/Intuition, and Thinking/Feeling, by doing a review of past theories of type, and from looking at "literature, aesthetics, religion, and philosophy" (to steal from amazon), and then refining them where he saw issues. So in the end, his theory was supposed to account for all the past work, while transforming it in places he found to be wrong. I seem to recall him calling it "empirical" in the sense that it was also based on working with his own patients, but that just seems weird to me, since that really means his interpretation of them, not any kind of direct data.

    OK, as I said, rambling, but it helped me get a sense of where I am.
    I always understood FFM as being shaped by Eysenck's PEN model: Psychoticism-Extroversion-Neuroticism. Psychoticism was found to split into Agreeableness and Conscientiousness.

    But now, the Wikipedia article on FFM is saying the FFM was first outlined in 1933. (Eysenck's model was generally dated as 1947. But them he may have had the concepts before then).

    So then maybe it is as you say.
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  3. #13
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Do you think its appropiate to type pin-up girls for "hot and not hot" and call it a typology ?
    Actually, that's called being politically incorrect and tasteless. Nice try, though.

  4. #14
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Actually, that's called being politically incorrect and tasteless. Nice try, though.
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    Go on with your quest then here, wont disturb you no more
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #15
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Actually, that's called being politically incorrect and tasteless. Nice try, though.
    How is it politically incorrect? You can't differentiate between qualities anymore?



  6. #16
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    I once tried to make up streaks of personality without finishing it but it went something like this.

    What positive/negative, positive/positive or negative/negative features are found when dealing with personalities and I started to list them like this

    The Vulture/Vampire streak
    The Trickster/Mischief Streak
    The Freedom/Control streak
    The Truth/False Streak
    The Logic/Chaos streak
    The Disease/Health streak
    The Intelligent/Ignoramus streak
    The Humility/Humble streak
    The Peaceful/Aggressive streak
    The Snoopy/Scavenger streak
    The Eaves drop/Gossip streak
    The Hoarder/collection streak
    The Addiction/Paranoid streak
    The Sensitive/Insensitive streak
    The Tinker/Curious streak
    The Faithful/Promiscuous streak

    Then I went on to write descriptions like this, although I only did the one before I abandoned the idea as I thought it wasn't very original.

    The Snoopy/Scavenger streak - my mother will be like that bird that wants to keep things and hoard it all, like a collection streak. And she likes to snoop around, she will open crumpled bills, old letters, junk, anything and including private things that are none of her business. Then she collects things, such as old business cards, library cards, shiny things, things that are still usable but are really just clutter. The throw away something that isn't valuable but is valuable to another person, when moving lots of things were thrown out that could have been given to charity. After which people came around and started to scavenge around our bin and the next day things were missing.

  7. #17
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Basing a theory of cognitive processing on the actual hardware in the brain makes more sense to me than organizing observations alone because those are subject to much interpretation. Starting with the brain itself allows for more objective measurement using scans that can demonstrate where certain thought processes are located. It does not rely on self-reporting and the validity problems that creates for a system.

    The second important component would be to construct poles that are by nature mutually exclusive. It is important when constructing an either/or category for cognition or behavior, to be sure that the absence of one trait implies the presence of the other. If a person can posses both or neither, then it is meaningless as an either/or category. It is like saying you are either a ballerina or a mechanic. Even though overlap between the two is less common than a ballerina or a tap dancer, still it is a meaningless dichotomy. It does not create a continuum where being less of one makes you more of the other by nature. Those are two skills which are contrasting, but don't share an inherent relationship. Contrasting categories are not by nature mutually exclusive. This distinction is important. I question some of the poles in MBTI for this reason.

    There is also some danger in using skill as category as opposed to process as the category. Something like compartmentalized vs. integration does not imply anything about intellectual or emotional skills. It could apply equally to MIT professors or Jerry Springer guests. Measuring cognition based on skill brings the questions of nature/nurture into the equation in a way that defines the cognitive process based on training, which is another subject.

    Edit: To clarify the last point, it is important at the get-go to decide if the system you design is going to be measuring skill based or process based cognition. If there is an element of skill mixed into the measurement of process and nature, the outcome will tend to be people assuming relative inherent worth.
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