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  1. #1
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Default These S people with their tiresome case against N

    S advocates on this board expect praise and recognition, yet fail to give any real credit to N side.

    One often repeated ridiculous comment, in it's entirety, is that N theories are useless. Well, du'h, I find your short, unconstructive, VAGUE, factless, tactless comment useless. Next time you feel the urge to say that, rather specify your concern, if you are so much after that appreciation thing.

    Sorry, can't make out what the hell you want. I'm fine with not giving a shit about your pesky troubles, should you fail to co-operate. If you would be looking for some common ground, fine, I'm ok with that too.

    This is not a sports event or a riot , learn new one-liners to chant.

  2. #2
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I don't think I've ever seen anyone here say that N theories are useless. Can you link me to any posts that say this?
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  3. #3
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    I was going to say that.... but the irony of someone posting;

    Well, du'h, I find your short, unconstructive, VAGUE, factless, tactless comment useless. Next time you feel the urge to say that, rather specify your concern, if you are so much after that appreciation thing.

    Was too much for me not to snipe at the author, so I held back. I'm just hoping he's an S, otherwise... well... not much I can say to it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    The Ss take crap from the Ns all the time on this forum. I don't see any problem with them doing a little trashing back.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    S advocates on this board expect praise and recognition, yet fail to give any real credit to N side.

    One often repeated ridiculous comment, in it's entirety, is that N theories are useless. Well, du'h, I find your short, unconstructive, VAGUE, factless, tactless comment useless. Next time you feel the urge to say that, rather specify your concern, if you are so much after that appreciation thing.

    Sorry, can't make out what the hell you want. I'm fine with not giving a shit about your pesky troubles, should you fail to co-operate. If you would be looking for some common ground, fine, I'm ok with that too.

    This is not a sports event or a riot , learn new one-liners to chant.
    Frankly, as only recently self-identifying as N, I still feel a rather combative tone in comments like this (and I don't believe that perception is ever going away).

    But as someone who has frequently heard people (In Real Life) deriding "theory" as "useless", I empathize with the some of the poster's sentiment.

    Theory is only applicable when applied. Applications can go wrong due to lack of understanding of the theory(I would say this is usually the case in my experience) as well as having a poor theory.

    When people mis-understand, mis-apply, an then deride the theory for being poor, I get rather annoyed.

    I think it is possible to discuss our differences in reasonable and thoughtful ways without giving up content in our grievances. This, I believe, is the role of logical argument (which can certainly contain emotions as part of the content).

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  6. #6
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Frankly, as only recently self-identifying as N, I still feel a rather combative tone in comments like this (and I don't believe that perception is ever going away).

    But as someone who has frequently heard people (In Real Life) deriding "theory" as "useless", I empathize with the some of the poster's sentiment.

    Theory is only applicable when applied. Applications can go wrong due to lack of understanding of the theory(I would say this is usually the case in my experience) as well as having a poor theory.

    When people mis-understand, mis-apply, an then deride the theory for being poor, I get rather annoyed.

    I think it is possible to discuss our differences in reasonable and thoughtful ways without giving up content in our grievances. This, I believe, is the role of logical argument (which can certainly contain emotions as part of the content).
    That is quite a reasonable view. What I don't find reasonable is to automatically ridicule points of view that the person doesn't even bother to examine. It is this perceived behaviour that inspired me to return the favor in this thread. I'll dig up some anti-theory posts for quick summary.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    S advocates on this board expect praise and recognition, yet fail to give any real credit to N side.

    One often repeated ridiculous comment, in it's entirety, is that N theories are useless. Well, du'h, I find your short, unconstructive, VAGUE, factless, tactless comment useless. Next time you feel the urge to say that, rather specify your concern, if you are so much after that appreciation thing.

    Sorry, can't make out what the hell you want. I'm fine with not giving a shit about your pesky troubles, should you fail to co-operate. If you would be looking for some common ground, fine, I'm ok with that too.

    This is not a sports event or a riot , learn new one-liners to chant.
    Aspiring to be a writer for The Onion, are you?

  8. #8
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I think it is possible to discuss our differences in reasonable and thoughtful ways without giving up content in our grievances. This, I believe, is the role of logical argument (which can certainly contain emotions as part of the content).
    Yay! Go ygolo!

    The most mindless, predictable step in the evolution of this forum is to have two categories of posters take sides against one another in a prejudicial face-off. Based on rumblings and comments so far, i would say the N-S divide is the most likely candidate.

    I really like this site and the people here. I am so hoping it doesn't fall into a mindless trap of prejudicial divides. I'm a rather strong iNtuitive, but value knowing about all kinds of mental processing. I have many Sensors i wildly admire. Even more important than everyone being 'friends', is everyone being willing to use reason when discussing differences so that we don't revert to Neanderthal cyber-smack downs.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #9
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    S advocates on this board expect praise and recognition, yet fail to give any real credit to N side.

    One often repeated ridiculous comment, in it's entirety, is that N theories are useless. Well, du'h, I find your short, nonconstructive, VAGUE, factless, tactless comment useless. Next time you feel the urge to say that, rather specify your concern, if you are so much after that appreciation thing.

    Sorry, can't make out what the hell you want. I'm fine with not giving a shit about your pesky troubles, should you fail to co-operate. If you would be looking for some common ground, fine, I'm ok with that too.

    This is not a sports event or a riot , learn new one-liners to chant.
    I understand your concern, sometimes Sensors can do that, but it isn't their fault. You really have to be careful to make what you say applicable to their reality, otherwise it will irritate them, because they want to deal with reality, not theory, and having to entertain pure theory with no basis in observable reality isn't something they relish. But if you want to make your theories useful, you have carefully and non-judgmentally listen to their criticisms to refine your idea and make it useful. (unless they just trash it without even entertaining it at all, in which case you are totally justified in ignoring them and moving on to someone else.)

    The thing is, the Sensors on this board feel very judged and defensive because of their past treatment at the hands of INTP's and other Intuitive types who didn't care about their concerns. It's important to remember that we are trying to draw in more Sensors so we can analyze the inter-type dynamics and behavioral tendencies in a forum context more precisely, and if we just judge them and send them away, we'll never get to study their internal functioning the way we need to if we are to understand them and relate to them more productively.

  10. #10
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I understand your concern, sometimes Sensors can do that, but it isn't their fault. You really have to be careful to make what you say applicable to their reality, otherwise it will irritate them, because they want to deal with reality, not theory, and having to entertain pure theory with no basis in observable reality isn't something they relish. But if you want to make your theories useful, you have carefully and non-judgmentally listen to their criticisms to refine your idea and make it useful. (unless they just trash it without even entertaining it at all, in which case you are totally justified in ignoring them and moving on to someone else.)

    The thing is, the Sensors on this board feel very judged and defensive because of their past treatment at the hands of INTP's and other Intuitive types who didn't care about their concerns. It's important to remember that we are trying to draw in more Sensors so we can analyze the inter-type dynamics and behavioral tendencies in a forum context more precisely, and if we just judge them and send them away, we'll never get to study their internal functioning the way we need to if we are to understand them and relate to them more productively.
    I agree with your concerns, as they are my concerns too. That's why I am being so practical in showing in clear terms the kind of commentary I consider too demeaning. Judging from responses, I am sure that I didn't come as misunderstood or too complex this time. If you as an S feel that you have now been harshly criticized, welcome to my world. Mission accomplished.

    I have already been shown the error of my ways, and I've heard it, so I felt obliged to return the favor, as I said. Isn't that what love is all about?

    I can picture a new forest growing from the ashes of this virtual forest fire that our N/S debate has been. All the crap thrown in here serves the purpose as a fertilizer, too. I'll put away my gasoline canister now and start up treeplanting. With this mutual understanding we have, there's nothing we can't achieve.

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