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  1. #31
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    Sigh. Fe was so hard and akward to learn when I was growig up.
    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    Well, for instance, during the months of May and June, I have Mother's Day, my mother's birthday, Father's day and my parents' anniversary. When I first realized it, I thought, that's a lot of fucking holidays for 2 people. Why do I have to spend money on something they'll forget in a few months? Maybe I can get a much smaller amount of presents to cover each holiday. I can be strategic about it. One gift to cover the sentiment of multiple holidays. Why do they need these holidays? I can understand the birthday and anniversary, but mother's and father's day? Don't they feel appreciated throughout the year? What's the point of the holiday? If I do too much, it might feel fake and isolated. I'll just get a card.
    Ahah. My brother and I have our birthdays and some other holidays close by, so my (ISTJ) mother usually sat us down and negotiated that she could handle it all in one go, because it would be more efficient. She even listed all the reasons why, even though we didn't need them since it was okay. She does it with everyone by what I know, and it seems to be a good method so far; however we don't have any people who'd be very sentive about remembering birthdays and what not.
    I remember one ISTJ member saying that s/he had INFJ parents. I'd be intereted in hearing how that person has handled the situation..

    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    This thread started because an INFJ at work was talking to me before we left. It wasn't a work related concern but more of a personal concern apparently. During our conversation she told me, "You're mean. Why are you mean? Let's talk about that." So, she went on to ask that ISFJ if she thought I was mean and she agreed. I told her about a girl earlier I talked to that said I was mean and feisty after 5 minutes of talking to me. She said not everyone can take everything I want to say, and I shouldn't expect everyone to not take anything personally. She said it was better to be nice and have friends than to expect others to have a thick skin and not have anyone to talk to. So, it made me start thinking about this.
    Firstly, you do not seem mean, merely very realistic. Social mishaps happen to all. Hell, even as an FJ I do more than enough of 'em.
    I've confirmed with a handful of people at work recently that they think I'm mean, mainly because I'm either too blunt, sarcastic or unwilling to help people if they don't necessarily need the help.
    Personally most people that come in contact with me will pegg me as feisty even mean, but it isn't taken as a bad quality probably because I infuse lots of humor and some relating to others crap to it. /Fe talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I'm just trying to understand how people get their feelings hurt or get offended. How does that work? I tried emulating scenarios in Vent with Kai and Cimarron, and I just felt frustration toward other people. I get my sense of pride hurt. Does that count?
    It may not be what you say, it will simply be that other persons insecurities and sensitivities grasping on to what has been said or the subject itself.
    Word choises play a huge part too, as I'm sure you're aware.

    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I guess the proper course of action is to get in touch with my empathy rather than trying to fake sympathy.
    Probably. I'll probably add to this later but now I'm in a hurry.

  2. #32
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Do this exactly. It'll give you more than you were originally wanting; you'll understand yourself, too.

    You'll also be hacking away at the root of the problem, rather than pruning the leaves and calling the tree dead.
    Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to do that. I started thinking about it and talked to others in vent, and apparently working on Fi involves thinking about the things that matter the most personally to me. It would also involve making more decisions based on what I want rather than what is the most efficient or effective. I honestly keep myself from doing things I'd like to do just because doesn't mesh with my structure or it's not an efficient choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    You can probably start now by playing guess-the-feelings-of-other-TypeC-users game.
    Yuck. online?

    Quote Originally Posted by sade View Post
    Sigh. Fe was so hard and akward to learn when I was growig up.

    Ahah. My brother and I have our birthdays and some other holidays close by, so my (ISTJ) mother usually sat us down and negotiated that she could handle it all in one go, because it would be more efficient. She even listed all the reasons why, even though we didn't need them since it was okay. She does it with everyone by what I know, and it seems to be a good method so far; however we don't have any people who'd be very sentive about remembering birthdays and what not.
    I remember one ISTJ member saying that s/he had INFJ parents. I'd be intereted in hearing how that person has handled the situation..

    Ohh, so other ISTJs do that same thing. Haha. It's Te at work, then, trying to find the most efficient choice.

    Firstly, you do not seem mean, merely very realistic. Social mishaps happen to all. Hell, even as an FJ I do more than enough of 'em.

    See, when I talk about things that are sensitive subjects in public, I don't think of it as a personal attack on someone. I want to discuss the subject itself and its effect on other people. I try to dissect the situation objectively and I don't have personal intentions. People just see other people or themselves associated with it and take it personally. I know I've done it sometimes, and I try to stop myself because I've come to view taking something personally as a weakness.



  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to do that. I started thinking about it and talked to others in vent, and apparently working on Fi involves thinking about the things that matter the most personally to me. It would also involve making more decisions based on what I want rather than what is the most efficient or effective. I honestly keep myself from doing things I'd like to do just because doesn't mesh with my structure or it's not an efficient choice.
    The first thing I learned about this is that a mindset that makes you successful on the job, with your finances, and so on, can get you nowhere in the social realm.

    There's gonna be conflict between the differing mindsets. It's a matter of developing them all, and determining when each mindset is useful. Go be inefficient for a while.

    For anyone, I'd say to start from what you've got. If it's determination, apply that to learning what you can about the domain you're interested in. If it's people skills, go network and get some advice from them. Just apply your natural skills to further yourself, but don't carry all of them over or you won't actually learn anything.

  4. #34
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    ...apparently working on Fi involves thinking about the things that matter the most personally to me. It would also involve making more decisions based on what I want rather than what is the most efficient or effective.
    I guess that sounds right. What's weird is that it can be hard for me to determine what I really want or why I really want it, the pure Fi "reason," because I've already put a Te reason over most things, without much conscious effort. So I have to peel off that layer to see what I want, and I identify it by the fact that it makes no "sense," it just exists as a desire. I think.

    Trying empathy sounds like a good path. Sympathy can be tough.

  5. #35
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Okay, so apparently everyone is right that the answer doesn't lie in faking Fe at the get go. The solution is to delve further into Fi. I talked to Amargith about this last night, and as hard as it is, I evidently just have to find ways to make myself understand that I have personal viewpoints on things and they do matter. I've had a few scenarios come up in the last few days that have been intensely Fi, and it's scary as hell.

    For instance, my first one was last night at work. This woman came in to buy a tie for her boss's birthday at work. He was a legislator, and she worked under him. I looked at the tie and I instantly thought to myself, "man, that is boring, and a tie is such an easy present. I hate how people take the easy way out like that." So, she asked me for my opinion of the tie, and without thinking, I started telling her:

    "Well, a tie is a really easy choice. I personally don't like it. It makes it seem like you didn't want to put much effort into it. The thing about birthdays at work is that once you start looking for a gift for a birthday, you've entered the personal realm and it's no longer professional. At that point, I want a gift from a person that shows me that they appreciate the value I bring to them as a human being, rather than a coworker." I went into a little more detail, but she seemed ok about it. Si and Te kept blaring away telling me, "You have broken so many rules. You have overstepped so many boundaries. If you had the option, you should just walk away because you have gotten too personal."

    Next, I started thinking about giving my own help to people. The problem with that lately, especially in the last 6 months, is that I don't like someone only forming a relationship with me to take advantage of my skills when they have the opportunity to be more personal. It feels like an attack on my worth as a person and I end up turning down requests for help because of it. It's situational, I know. 5 years ago, I would've just offered my help to anyone that asked because it made me feel useful, but suddenly Fi is telling me that people have hidden motives and they should be considered.

    Last, I had an Fi blow up with my mother earlier today. It was mostly over religion that I wasn't agreeing with the family views anymore. I hadn't told them, even though I had come to the conclusion personally about 9 months ago. I just kept up with the family traditions because I felt they should be respected and my opinion didn't have enough of an effect to warrant disrupting my day to day life with my family. However, today, during a conversation with my mother, I blew up, going off on her about how I had a personal obligation to my own beliefs and that I should stand up for them. It ended semi-ok. Right before I blew up on it, I had this massive internal argument, with many sides going after each other. At one point, I couldn't take it anymore and I just told myself, "I can't think straight. I can't figure out what to feel. This is fucking insane. I'm letting it out and I don't care what they think." It was like I hit a boiling point.

    The problem is mostly that I just...have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that I have personal feelings regarding situations that are relevant. I never viewed it as a necessity to delve into before so I didn't. I honestly thought to myself, "If I figure out my own feelings, will they even be that impressive compared to other people's feelings?" It's just trying to do something because it feels right is so foreign to me. It's made me more emotional recently and it makes me feel like crying to delve into.

    Part of the problem also is learning to use Fi to turn off Te in terms of caring what other people think about me. Te moves me to be concerned if other people view me as competent. I evidently need to delve into Fi also in order to learn how to turn that concern off at times, as it's preventing me from having a personal identity. The problem with that is that I need to figure out how to tell myself that my personal identity is more important than how other people view me. ><

    This is just so confusing. Amargith gave me a small goal of finding a small Te rule and breaking it for personal reasons. So, I started with a $300 check that my grandparents gave me. Te says to use it responsibly and save it or pay bills with it. I got myself to use it instead to buy a video game. I'll work on finding more Te rules to work on breaking. Take baby steps, you know? Start small and work to the bigger stuff. This is exhausting. I feel like crying when I try using Fi. I just ask myself, "how do I have the audacity to put my personal concerns before the external guidelines?"


  6. #36
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Ha I knew it was about Fe-tardism and not Fi-tardism @ventrillo chat
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #37
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    fuck that...being nice is overrated

  8. #38
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    I'm actually usually valued for my lack of Fe and ability to make logical judgments regardless of the feelings of others. It can go pretty far in some areas.

    The way I personally compensate for the weakness in Fe is to compliment people on their areas of success and just learn to compliment past achievements when their present achievements aren't very numerous. Don't lose your Te while trying to strengthen Fe.

    The best person to explain Fe to you would be an ISFJ. They're very similar to us because they use Si as their dominant function but are different because they use Fe as their auxiliary function. They can help you learn how to use your Si and interpret it with Fe.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

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