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  1. #11
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    Well, I have a similar case. In my family, I have an INTJ father, ESFJ mother, ESFJ sister, ENFJ sister and ESFP brother. Of the children, I'm the lone introverted thinker that they just don't get and I don't get them either.

    I'll expand later in a bit. I need time to think about it.
    Alright, I'll hear from you later.

    With the exception of an uncle, I'm the lone INTJ amongst all my relatives and family. My strengths are only valued when it comes to organization ...and holiday cards. (I'm told I write killer appreciation letters.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody View Post
    I remember seeing a thread similar to this a while back (it was about developing general F in ENTJs), and someone pointed out that for TJs, it's probably easier to develop Fi than Fe. I don't know if that would solve all of your problems, since having strong Fi doesn't eliminate all Fe-tard moments (I would know, lol). But maybe strengthening/working from Fi would be a more natural way for you to learn how to "be nice" as opposed to trying to force Fe. I don't know ... what do other people think?
    Spot on. Fi can be a good substitute the lack of Fe. You're right that it doesn't get rid of the Fe-tard moments, in which case Ti is another excellent option. The STPs and ENTPs do well with my SFJ family branch.

    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I've been delving into Fi lately, but it's giving weird responses. I just feel fucked up and incompetent that I'm incapable of maintaining meaningful friendships. In the end, I end up thinking, "I can keep to myself and do what I want, but I apparently can't do this relating stuff as easily as the average joe, so wtf is wrong with me? I feel like my worth as a human being has thus been lowered."
    Yeah, don't force the Fe. It usually backfires. Concentrate on what you feel you're willing to do for other people. Ease yourself into that first. You'll be more successful building upon what you already have than creating it from thin air.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
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    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  2. #12
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I've been delving into Fi lately, but it's giving weird responses. I just feel fucked up and incompetent that I'm incapable of maintaining meaningful friendships. In the end, I end up thinking, "I can keep to myself and do what I want, but I apparently can't do this relating stuff as easily as the average joe, so wtf is wrong with me? I feel like my worth as a human being has thus been lowered."
    Re: signature.

    Perhaps extroverts are jealous of your ability to spell without invoking the vocal cords.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    One thing that comes to mind: if someone lets you know that something is bothering them, coming up with all the reasons why it shouldn't bother them is not the way to go if you want to make friends and influence people.
    Hahah yes. I used to do this ALL the time. I still have to work on not resorting to it as an immediate reaction.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Hahah yes. I used to do this ALL the time. I still have to work on not resorting to it as an immediate reaction.
    It helps to remember that ultimately people aren't logical beings, even if we try to operate in logical manners. I usually have two modes of thinkings going on: The one that understands what's occuring neutrally. Then there's the other part that attempts to try figure out what people's actual reactions are to it, and why they might have that reaction.

    I'd imagine that anybody that has undergone addiction to sadness, misery and apathy should understand how pointless logical advice such as "Stop it/Cheer up" can be. A person can understand something intellectually, but that doesn't mean they accept it emotionally.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Rhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Yeeeeah..see, the only problem with THAT is that you can't develop Fi, you can only be supermegawallapounded by it, repeatedly, until you give it your lunch money and stop walking that way to school.
    LMFAO. And they wonder why IFPs can be emo.

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Perhaps the simplest and most direct approach is to mirror back the "nice" things other people do. If someone gives you a compliment, this likely means that they enjoy receiving compliments. If they offer helpfulness, then that person probably likes it when someone returns a helpful act.
    This is great advice, and is actually part of how I've learned to improve my Fe.

    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I've been delving into Fi lately, but it's giving weird responses. I just feel fucked up and incompetent that I'm incapable of maintaining meaningful friendships.
    Oh yes, feeling fucked up and incompetent ... welcome to the world of Fi. Er, but on a more serious note ... what is the weird response you're getting from it (or is feeling like your worth is lowered the weird response)? Just trying to get a better handle on your situation ...

  5. #15
    Senior Member Rhapsody's Avatar
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    I know this page has been linked to elsewhere on this board, but just in case you haven't seen it:

    How to Experience Different Function-Attitudes

    If you scroll down, there are exercises for developing (or at least experiencing the mindset of) Fe and Fi. Maybe they'd be helpful?

  6. #16
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Alright, I'll hear from you later.

    With the exception of an uncle, I'm the lone INTJ amongst all my relatives and family. My strengths are only valued when it comes to organization ...and holiday cards. (I'm told I write killer appreciation letters.)


    Well, for instance, during the months of May and June, I have Mother's Day, my mother's birthday, Father's day and my parents' anniversary. When I first realized it, I thought, that's a lot of fucking holidays for 2 people. Why do I have to spend money on something they'll forget in a few months? Maybe I can get a much smaller amount of presents to cover each holiday. I can be strategic about it. One gift to cover the sentiment of multiple holidays. Why do they need these holidays? I can understand the birthday and anniversary, but mother's and father's day? Don't they feel appreciated throughout the year? What's the point of the holiday? If I do too much, it might feel fake and isolated. I'll just get a card.

    But, like, for instance, an ISFJ at work came up to me to buy something on her lunch break. We had these preorder forms for customers and she was doing one of them for herself. So, I gave her the form and a pen. She asked me why I didn't fill out the form for the customers. I told her right there, "I don't know the customer's personal information." She said she just does it anyway. I thought, I'd likely have to get their driver's license and credit card, then write it all down myself, probably taking more time. It'd be more efficient for them to do it. I didn't tell her that, but I was just trying to understand her point of view. It wasn't required to do it, but it was something she did just to be nice.

    This thread started because an INFJ at work was talking to me before we left. It wasn't a work related concern but more of a personal concern apparently. During our conversation she told me, "You're mean. Why are you mean? Let's talk about that." So, she went on to ask that ISFJ if she thought I was mean and she agreed. I told her about a girl earlier I talked to that said I was mean and feisty after 5 minutes of talking to me. She said not everyone can take everything I want to say, and I shouldn't expect everyone to not take anything personally. She said it was better to be nice and have friends than to expect others to have a thick skin and not have anyone to talk to. So, it made me start thinking about this.


    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Re: signature.

    Perhaps extroverts are jealous of your ability to spell without invoking the vocal cords.
    Fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody View Post
    Oh yes, feeling fucked up and incompetent ... welcome to the world of Fi. Er, but on a more serious note ... what is the weird response you're getting from it (or is feeling like your worth is lowered the weird response)? Just trying to get a better handle on your situation ...
    The feeling like my worth has been lowered is the weird response. Is that Fi? I just didn't expect myself to think that the ability to relate and appreciate others in a less than logical manner would become something that would add to my worth as a human being.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody View Post
    I know this page has been linked to elsewhere on this board, but just in case you haven't seen it:

    How to Experience Different Function-Attitudes

    If you scroll down, there are exercises for developing (or at least experiencing the mindset of) Fe and Fi. Maybe they'd be helpful?

    That's a pretty cool website. I was reading this part: "If a friend you haven't seen in a long time addresses you as "Mr. Tibbs" (assuming your last name is Tibbs), what does that show about your friend's understanding of your friendship? That's an awfully formal way for friends to speak, so it seems like a cold gesture, aimed at showing that he wants to keep you at a distance."

    I do this sometimes. At work, even some people I see everyday, I might refer to as "Miss Smith." It's more of thinking that that's a more effective way of grabbing their attention by using their last name as it's more personal or just because I think it's cool. I had a teacher in elementary school that'd refer to students by their last name only and I thought he was awesome for that. I guess now that I think about it, I do it because I think, I know your last name, so I can call you by a formal name because constantly using your first name feels personal. I can converse with you, but the formal name makes me feel at a distance.

    Try to get someone to treat you a certain way that defines a role for you. For example, try to get someone to treat you like royalty, or like a disposable slave, or like an expert authority, or like an eager student who wants to learn from them. You will have to, in some way, define a complementary role for them at the same time, through your actions. You can't ask explicitly that they treat you that way, except as a very last resort. You have to get the mutual roles going by, in effect, painting them in the complementary role first so they find themselves naturally playing along and painting you in the role you want. You may find that it's tricky to get painted in a positive role, but it can be done if you give the other person a complementary role that they really like. In effect, an implicit contract is created: you paint them in a role they like, and they paint you in a role you like."
    I looked at this paragraph also. My first reaction was, "Why would someone do that for me? I don't think I could get someone to treat me in a special way just because I ask them."

    The Introverted Sensation one is interesting. The first paragraph describes spotting a specific object within a crowded room and that reminds me of how I tend to look for things. I did that at work looking for something in a drawer. I'd know what I was looking for and scan through the drawer, then wait for a resemblance of what I was looking for to jump out as something that was on my mind that didn't coincide with what was irrelevant in the drawer.

    LOL. I'm starting to think when reading the Extraverted Thinking exercise, "Do I really do all that? Oh wait, I love coming up with steps in my head, prioritizing them and then carrying them out" and then I saw it come out in this post. I quoted people, then figured out which reply was more difficult than the other, more entertaining than the other, and prioritized accordingly. I even prioritize the writing in paragraphs based on which points need to be made first, second and third.


  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    ...
    Yeah, you have no idea how many people actually do this. It should probably be a given, but it is not

  8. #18
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Yeah, you have no idea how many people actually do this. It should probably be a given, but it is not
    It's not really that I think it's more appropriate to do that, but more of that when someone tells you a problem, I see it as more fun to analyze the situation and figure out the causes and effects. Right, lack of Fe. Heh.


  9. #19
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    Well, for instance, during the months of May and June, I have Mother's Day, my mother's birthday, Father's day and my parents' anniversary. When I first realized it, I thought, that's a lot of fucking holidays for 2 people. Why do I have to spend money on something they'll forget in a few months? Maybe I can get a much smaller amount of presents to cover each holiday. I can be strategic about it. One gift to cover the sentiment of multiple holidays. Why do they need these holidays? I can understand the birthday and anniversary, but mother's and father's day? Don't they feel appreciated throughout the year? What's the point of the holiday? If I do too much, it might feel fake and isolated. I'll just get a card.
    That reminds me, I'm late on about twenty years worth of cards.

    But, like, for instance, an ISFJ at work came up to me to buy something on her lunch break. We had these preorder forms for customers and she was doing one of them for herself. So, I gave her the form and a pen. She asked me why I didn't fill out the form for the customers. I told her right there, "I don't know the customer's personal information." She said she just does it anyway. I thought, I'd likely have to get their driver's license and credit card, then write it all down myself, probably taking more time. It'd be more efficient for them to do it. I didn't tell her that, but I was just trying to understand her point of view. It wasn't required to do it, but it was something she did just to be nice.
    But you know it's because she's keeping track of people, right? For when she needs to follow them home and touch their children. You know that, right?

    This thread started because an INFJ at work was talking to me before we left. It wasn't a work related concern but more of a personal concern apparently. During our conversation she told me, "You're mean. Why are you mean? Let's talk about that." So, she went on to ask that ISFJ if she thought I was mean and she agreed. I told her about a girl earlier I talked to that said I was mean and feisty after 5 minutes of talking to me. She said not everyone can take everything I want to say, and I shouldn't expect everyone to not take anything personally. She said it was better to be nice and have friends than to expect others to have a thick skin and not have anyone to talk to. So, it made me start thinking about this.
    INFJ? Tell her as far as she's concerned everyone is mean. Can anyone reach as high as an INFJ's expectations? If she wants the human resources job, she should just apply.

    The feeling like my worth has been lowered is the weird response. Is that Fi?
    Yep. It's Fi that's popped up in lieu of your real judgment function being used adequately.

    Fe's your deceiver, big guy. It will be more productive to think in terms of taking responsibility for stuff that's in front of you, and aiming for some tangible gain. Like, plan a party for your parents; report the ISFJ to the cops; try spotting ENTP customers and directing them to the INFJ.

    Te FTW. Or as we say, standing out in the corn fields, Te it, and Fi will come.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Fe is the devil's work. Fin.

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