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  1. #11
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I agree, but it isn't entirely bad to use it to measure the appearance of extraversion.
    If you would argue that being loud and "energetic" makes you appear to be extraverted, by association you believe these to be traits typical of extraverts.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  2. #12
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Not just INTJs, but all introverted types that use "Chart the Course" interaction style, to include INTJ, INFJ, ISTP and ISTJ. I get confused as extravert by those who do not know me well. My immediately family will tell people that I am a hardcore introvert.

    I referenced to this on another thread regarding extraverts being mistyped as introverts. It's my theory, based on the interaction styles, that all "Behind the Scenes types (INTP, INFP, ISFP and ISFJ) are the true introverts whereas "Chart the Course" types are introverts mistyped as extraverts for those who do not know them well. "Get Things Going" types (ENTP, ENFP, ESFP and ESFJ) extraverts who may be confused as introverts and "In Charge" types (ENTJ, ENFJ, ESTP and ESTJ) are the true extraverts.

    The Get Things Going and In Charge types may be reversed, however I think much of it has to do with the need to control information (Behind the Scenes and In Charge) vs the need for movement (Chart the Course and Get Things Going), but could as well be the directing (In Charge and Chart the Course styles) vs informing (Get Things Going and Behind the Scenes) communication styles.

  3. #13
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    If INTJs appear more E than INTPs, I think it's less to do with the fact that Te is their secondary function (for INTPs it's Ne, Te isn't more extroverted than Ne. that's silly) and more to do with the fact that Ti isn't their dominant function. INTPs are more likely to find objections to socializing. I know I do.
    I don't wanna!

  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    If INTJs appear more E than INTPs, I think it's less to do with the fact that Te is their secondary function (for INTPs it's Ne, Te isn't more extroverted than Ne. that's silly) and more to do with the fact that Ti isn't their dominant function. INTPs are more likely to find objections to socializing. I know I do.
    I have seen that -- where INTJs can socialize much better and move confidently through the social situation, where INTPs would rather just not be bothered and sometimes find it uncomfortable.

    I don't know if it also involves personal confidence. INTJs seem to have no problem asserting themselves in a conversation, whereas INTPs are always feeling things out and feeling as if they will step into an emotional landmine if they say something wrong.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #15
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    That made me realize something.

    I had sort of assumed that I censor everything through my head, but that's not always true. WHen i'm in a great discussion, I totally ditch the censoring (and the filter for offending others/saying inappropriate things) in favor of devoting all my cognitive resources to discovering what I'm trying to discover.

    I've never seen an INTP do that. They do always seem to have filters on. Ti, I suppose. That makes sense.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  6. #16
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    If you would argue that being loud and "energetic" makes you appear to be extraverted, by association you believe these to be traits typical of extraverts.
    It may not always be the case, but I would say that it generally is true (in my experience). On top of which, it's difficult to measure someone's "appearance" of getting energy from being around people rather than being by themselves.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  7. #17
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    For me, it's all about comfort and/or confidence. If it's a subject I know a great deal about, it's hard to shut me up. I am a generally open and chatty person when it comes to the superficial, but very few people know the real me. Therefore, people who don't know me well tend to think of me as being more extraverted than I really am, and then get annoyed when they hit the "brick wall" of privacy I have about the non-superficial.

  8. #18
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I've never seen an INTP do that. They do always seem to have filters on. Ti, I suppose. That makes sense.
    Actually, Ti and Ne are most apt to get an INTP in trouble. (When they start acting like ENTPs and using Ne everywhere, it is very easy for them to get carried away with their creative wit and end up upsetting people. And when Ti comes out in a conversation, the way it can offend people is by being very impersonal about things that some people think should be VERY personal.)

    I think it is mostly a lack of good "feeling sense." INTJs do tend to not censor their thoughts as much, once they get going; and they also have Fi as their tertiary, which guides them a little on the "personal" level. But poor INTPs are left up the creek, with only Fe as an inferior function to help them relate on a personal level with others.

    Usually it is easier to just avoid conversations altogether, except with those who are either funny/witty (the Ne thing) or very intellectual (the Ti) thing. Note that for a long time in life, INTP discussions will revolve around something zany/quirky (Ne) or something where they are discussing intellectual things or the philosophical nature of things. Both of these are impersonal topics.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19
    Senior Member Recluse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Actually, Ti and Ne are most apt to get an INTP in trouble. (When they start acting like ENTPs and using Ne everywhere, it is very easy for them to get carried away with their creative wit and end up upsetting people. And when Ti comes out in a conversation, the way it can offend people is by being very impersonal about things that some people think should be VERY personal.)

    I think it is mostly a lack of good "feeling sense." INTJs do tend to not censor their thoughts as much, once they get going; and they also have Fi as their tertiary, which guides them a little on the "personal" level. But poor INTPs are left up the creek, with only Fe as an inferior function to help them relate on a personal level with others.

    Usually it is easier to just avoid conversations altogether, except with those who are either funny/witty (the Ne thing) or very intellectual (the Ti) thing. Note that for a long time in life, INTP discussions will revolve around something zany/quirky (Ne) or something where they are discussing intellectual things or the philosophical nature of things. Both of these are impersonal topics.
    Yikes, I couldn't agree with that more! Good explanation.


    On an unrelated note to Jennifer: I'm curious to know what you scored on each preference, percentagewise. You have a writing style reminiscent of an INFP's, yet the thought pattern of a well-balanced INTP. I find that intriguing.
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  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
    On an unrelated note to Jennifer: I'm curious to know what you scored on each preference, percentagewise. You have a writing style reminiscent of an INFP, yet the thought pattern of a well-balanced INTP. I find that intriguing.


    Yes, I confuse a great number of people -- there have been a few debates about my T/F line (and I notice that you are an INxP, similarly, which might be why it was so noticeable to you).

    On all conventional MBTI online tests (where you are simply picking between T/F options), I always score INTP.

    On the Berens function test, my scores were as follows:
    Ti - 49.2
    Ne - 42.2
    Ni - 38
    Fe - 29.8
    Fi - 28.5
    Te - 21.7
    Si - 19.5
    Se - 11.5
    Which scores INTP.

    On the MMDI which I just discovered yesterday, my function scores were:
    Ni - 28
    Fi - 26
    Ne - 22
    Ti - 19
    Fe - 16
    Si - 13
    Te - 9
    Se - 7
    That test (for the first time I've seen) typed me as an INFx.

    JivinJeff suggests that one's type around the ages of 10-15 probably is most indicative, before one develops the typical social guises. I was INTP in my approach to life; but I was very very isolated and lonely, and this came out both in writing and in music where I was seeking for those "intimate" feelings and looking for some sort of emotional connection.

    Which I think is why I developed this very introspective "Jane Eyre" or autobiographical/personal writing/artistic style, but it is all processed through a T filter. I learned to socialize through my writing.

    So I look much more F than many T's in how I relate and describe things and try to connect with people, but I still make my decisions about life through T sensibilities rather than F ones, and do not have a strong inner sense of values; my criteria tends to be external, like a T's.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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