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  1. #1
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Question Which are differences between SJs and NJs ?

    To me it looks like that people have the tendency to think J=SJ. What is reasonable since four SJ types are quite common in population while NJs tend to be 4 rarest types.

    I think that differences between this two groups are quite large.
    Especially if you take a look under their skins.

    I think that in general differences are

    SJ= plans, structure, order, rules
    NJ= the end justifies the means + determination

    This is generalization and simplification but I think that this is the truth.


    I will just start the topic and I will provide some extra conclusions as the thread goes.



    Question for NJ
    How often it happens to you that just because you are determined and punctual people tend to think that you are one of those down to Earth people ?

  2. #2
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Js in general appreciate structure and order in their external environments, not just SJs.

    That said, I've met NJs with messy rooms, and they don't seem as determined to impose that order on anyone else. (SJs will do this with a vengeance, especially if you share living space with them.)

    Basically, SJs are good with making tactical plans on a smaller scale, sticking to them and getting them done on schedule. Given a detailed plan for precisely how the task should be done, they're extremely effective.

    NJs work better with overall broader goals. NJ figures out the strategic direction we should be moving as a whole unit and then SJ goes and figures out how to plan the individual tactics to put it into practice.

    Another key difference is that SJs have more respect for authority structures, on principle. NJs will occasionally make critical strategic changes without consulting superiors, because their iNtuition has already reasoned out that it will work, whether or not it's been done before, and there's no time to waste getting formal approval.

    SJs typically wouldn't do this without a VERY good overriding reason, like a safety concern or something. SJs are extremely cognizant of their responsibilities toward others, and they're more likely to shut down a project because of a possible safety concern or procedural error--they like to go by the book. They don't like to take calculated risks without a safe backup plan based on solid, concrete past experience.

    Both types like to read the book ahead of time in order to have a plan established (this is where they differ from Ps), but SJs will stick to it pretty closely in most cases, whereas NJs will only consult it when they feel they need help. They're much more inclined to search for the governing principles of the system and then use them to break it, improve upon it or otherwise innovate.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    NJ= the end justifies the means
    This sentence alone contrasts the questions usually used to determine N and S. It certainly contrasts with the idea of the process and journey being much more important than the end result.

    Otherwise the descriptions that have been given to SJs can apply to NJs?
    Do NJs not have internal rules, order, structure and so fourth?

    I simply define the difference as Ni vs Si.

  4. #4
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    This sentence alone contrasts the questions usually used to determine N and S. It certainly contrasts with the idea of the process and journey being much more important than the end result.

    Otherwise the descriptions that have been given to SJs can apply to NJs?
    Do NJs not have internal rules, order, structure and so fourth?

    I simply define the difference as Ni vs Si.
    Maybe I am wrong but this question is usually for J/P.


    You are right Ni and Si are the main difference.

  5. #5
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    This sentence alone contrasts the questions usually used to determine N and S. It certainly contrasts with the idea of the process and journey being much more important than the end result.

    Otherwise the descriptions that have been given to SJs can apply to NJs?
    Do NJs not have internal rules, order, structure and so fourth?

    I simply define the difference as Ni vs Si.
    For all their external organization, NJs actually aren't nearly as organized internally as their appearance would indicate. Unlike NPs, Je+Pi doesn't really care about internal logical consistency so much as being able to make objectively verifiable progress toward a measurable external goal--hence the J focus on productivity. This is a function of the fact all Js introvert the perceptive function and extrovert the judging one.

    NPs (Pe+Ji) give off a much more disorganized outward appearance, but in reality their inner logic by which external stimuli are judged is extremely consistent and demands structural integrity from any idea seeking to gain true credibility.

    This probably explains why NPs will argue anything to death just to look at all the angles and prove logical consistency/lack thereof--Ji *needs* the assurance that all of its positions are rationally consistent.

    NJs don't bother with this: Ni+Je asks, "Why do I need logical consistency if it doesn't get me toward any measurable external goal? What do I gain from arguing this with you?"

    You know, maybe they're onto something...
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Maybe I am wrong but this question is usually for J/P.
    It's possible. That would make sense.
    One way to find out.

    You are right Ni and Si are the main difference.
    Overall what stimulated mention holds true, the desire for organisation internally is definitely there. Whether it exists externally is another matter. I'm horrible at cleaning up etc and it doesn't help that I just lost my damn wallet today.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    For all their external organization, NJs actually aren't nearly as organized internally as their appearance would indicate. Unlike NPs, Je+Pi doesn't really care about internal logical consistency so much as being able to make objectively verifiable progress toward a measurable external goal--hence the J focus on productivity. This is a function of the fact all Js introvert the perceptive function and extrovert the judging one.

    NPs (Pe+Ji) give off a much more disorganized outward appearance, but in reality their inner logic by which external stimuli are judged is extremely consistent and demands structural integrity from any idea seeking to gain true credibility.

    This probably explains why NPs will argue anything to death just to look at all the angles and prove logical consistency/lack thereof--Ji *needs* the assurance that all of its positions are rationally consistent.

    NJs don't bother with this: Ni+Je asks, "Why do I need logical consistency if it doesn't get me toward any measurable external goal? What do I gain from arguing this with you?"


    You know, maybe they're onto something...
    It certainly makes alot of sense. I do view Ti and Fi as functions that are concerned with internal consistency when it comes to truth etc. At the same time, sometimes I find that Fi doesn't really have much to stand upon but this might be the fact that I just don't perceive it well enough.

    What do you think of NFJs that call themselves as "Truth seekers?"
    But at this point it's probably a mashing of lots of different functions.

  7. #7
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^You're probably a P. You extrovert your perception and introvert your judgment.

    In reality, when you are using your introverted function (which, if it's the one you use most often, you're an I), you are actually judging, hence your internal organizational hierarchy.

    When you're interacting with the outer world, you're using Pe (meaning Ne/Se), so you exhibit P characteristics externally...in other words, even though Introverted Judgers actually spend MORE time on Pi (all IJs are dominant in Si or Ni) than they do on Je, the fact that they extrovert judgment makes them Js anyway, because that's the function that people on the outside see.

    So we perceive INxJs as very organized, but inside everything is much more negotiable than with INxPs.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #8
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post

    So we perceive INxJs as very organized, but inside everything is much more negotiable than with INxPs.
    I know, following my inner line of thought is mission impossibe for others if I try to verbalize it.

  9. #9
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    SJ is probably viewed as a more conscientious type; they seem to follow routine easier and can work better at a steady pace.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ^You're probably a P. You extrovert your perception and introvert your judgment.

    In reality, when you are using your introverted function (which, if it's the one you use most often, you're an I), you are actually judging, hence your internal organizational hierarchy.

    When you're interacting with the outer world, you're using Pe (meaning Ne/Se), so you exhibit P characteristics externally...in other words, even though Introverted Judgers actually spend MORE time on Pi (all IJs are dominant in Si or Ni) than they do on Je, the fact that they extrovert judgment makes them Js anyway, because that's the function that people on the outside see.
    Interesting idea. It's certainly possible, but I would expect that there are many FJs who have adopted the idea that it's best to withold judgement from the external environment and to just comment on what they perceive, the latter being less judgemental in nature.

    This is of course assuming that I haven't used judgement/perception out of context.

    So we perceive INxJs as very organized, but inside everything is much more negotiable than with INxPs.
    This does seem to correlate with my experience sometime that Fi dominants can become quite attached to their belief system, where as I've seen Fe users take on a more moral relativity approach when it comes to debating about ethics. Granted it's a limited sample, and therefore could be wrong.

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