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  1. #11
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    hey thank you everyone for helping me with the books

    yeah as i learn more and more I'm going to look into finding carl jung "psychological types" Thankfully when i checked they have one floating around at my local library. I also want to check into lenore thomson as the wiki is pretty impressive.

    hmm...haven't check out socionics that much. I am curious though it seems pretty well liked.

    ooh thank you ladyinspring
    I got to say it cleared up alot of the fog too. The charts we so easy to understand and I also liked how they had it where you figure the focuses like = outcome and such. Definitely worth it for me to get those books. So happy i just got them and didn't say nah.

    Thank you all
    Sincerely Dots,
    your local and for sure INFP . I must have supporting NT though cause i always loved to learn new things hence my mbti addiction but the core drive is to find thy self and of course with that start to understand others more. It's already showing a understanding between how my mother and i interact.
    SFJ and me INFP equals whaaa... now i feel i'm getting to more here hehe. sometimes still smack myself as i think i'll truly get her but I can work to understand her ways.

    She knows i don't like being or feel like i'm being manipulated so it helps if everynow and then she uses her voice to "ask" for help and not being already done with everything and saying "you could of helped or grabbed this"

    then i say "well i'm sorry i didn't know you wanted help"
    So i agree to try to be more attentive to when she wants help but she also has to speak up so i don't feel like i'm being trained into my father haha a huge INP. Most likely INTP *Definite Fe user but needed to develop it like me but i don't maybe he was infp you can never tell from the service *? spelling*
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  2. #12
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Beebe's functions most likely won't line up in that order. They don't seem to for anyone. So I say those are more about the roles than the strengths.
    I've begun appreciating Lenore Thomson and even Socionics better as they offer another perspective, where the two bottom functions may show up a lot as "alternatives" to the preferred two.
    i like your theoretical rigour.

    i've read lenore and glanced over jung. read kiersey tho i don't really like his style as much, prefer more of a cognitive function approach (tho i do subscribe to mb developmental function order). i don't know where to begin with socionics, but i'd like to start.

    what do you recommend? that link you had on the other thread about the visual representations for the perceptual reality matrix was one of the best things i've read so far. i think holistic and linear/causal is really the cleanest way of explaining F/T, and the localized vs wide as J/P.

    i'm interested in the best literature for enneagram as well, i've been disappointed so far. i'm also looking for connections to other psychology (big 5, psychoanaltyic, abnormal, etc) and cognitive science.

    studying mb reminds me of studying marx. there's a jungianism, all kinds of developments and branches in the language-game/discourse of jungian psychology.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duchessoftheshadows View Post

    It's already showing a understanding between how my mother and i interact.
    SFJ and me INFP equals whaaa... now i feel i'm getting to more here hehe. sometimes still smack myself as i think i'll truly get her but I can work to understand her ways.

    She knows i don't like being or feel like i'm being manipulated so it helps if everynow and then she uses her voice to "ask" for help and not being already done with everything and saying "you could of helped or grabbed this"

    then i say "well i'm sorry i didn't know you wanted help"
    Oh its so simple. Your mum feels its her duty to do everything. Although every now and then she feels like a doormat so lashes out. There you go, just offer the help occasionally.

    I am learning the same though with my ENTP son, oh its hard work but so interesting.

  4. #14
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i like your theoretical rigour.
    THANX!
    i've read lenore and glanced over jung. read kiersey tho i don't really like his style as much, prefer more of a cognitive function approach (tho i do subscribe to mb developmental function order). i don't know where to begin with socionics, but i'd like to start.

    what do you recommend? that link you had on the other thread about the visual representations for the perceptual reality matrix was one of the best things i've read so far. i think holistic and linear/causal is really the cleanest way of explaining F/T, and the localized vs wide as J/P.
    Well, Berens uses both the Keirseyan temperaments and retains the cognitive processes. The defacto "official" position of this board and most of the others where we all use both, would be Berens' "Multiple Model". She does employ Beebe's model, though not exhaustively, while Lenore is basically a differe "school of thought" as I call it. But it seems a combination of Beebe and Lenore (with the temperaments and Interaction Styles) would be the most helpful.
    I'm also looking at Beebe's article "An Archetypal Model of the Self in Dialogue" at An Archetypal Model of the Self in Dialogue -- Beebe 12 (2): 267 -- Theory & Psychology (Theory & Psychology, Vol. 12, No. 2, 267-280 (2002)) which appears to be the largest source of his teaching in print. It even gives an analysis of Woody Allen's movie Husbands and Wives; I guess picking the eight archetypes out of the interactions. If I'm reading this thing correctly, it is $20, for one day, and I'm flat broke right now. (Also forgot, I see the central library has Lenore's book, and I had planned this week to go check it out. Hope I remember tomorrow).

    I'm myself really gathering what the real differences between MBTI and Socionics is. It has been so difficult to fully understand MBTI, I was not ready to tackle Socionics. The most notable difference is that they use j/p to indicate dominant function rather than extraverted, and that basically switches the last letters for the introverts. But then, people are saying some people will have the same MBTI and Socionics code, and everything is different because the processes are in different orders. (With Lenore, the out of place processes are brain alernatives, which would affirm that the Crow's Nest and Double Agents are in fact what Beebe considers the "shadows". I'm not sure if the Super-Ego is treated the same way).
    It also seems to go more into intertype dynamics, and has other groupings, such as the Quadras, which are useful.

    i'm interested in the best literature for enneagram as well, i've been disappointed so far. i'm also looking for connections to other psychology (big 5, psychoanaltyic, abnormal, etc) and cognitive science.
    There are many sites for Enneagram. 9types.com - Enneagram tests, type descriptions, forums, Enneagram Types, Enneagram Test : Enneagram Worldwide and Enneagram Institute: Enneagram Testing & Training gave me a lot of good information.
    As for Enneagram-MBTI correlations, I like this one: Enneagram
    Basically, what results, roughly, is
    1: J's 2: EF 3: ET 4: IF 5: IT 6: EF/IF 7: EP 8: ET, 9: various
    studying mb reminds me of studying marx. there's a jungianism, all kinds of developments and branches in the language-game/discourse of jungian psychology.
    Yeah, amazing how this can be so diverse, and yet it's not even fully respected as a science.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Those seem... okay, I guess. I've brought tons of books on it, though, along with lots of information online. The "Descriptions for Self-discovery" and "Activities for developing the 8 functions" are probably the best of them, don't think the others you ordered really add much, honestly.

    But if you buy more, I'd recommend these:

    Amazon.com: Gifts Differing: Understanding Personality Type: Isabel Briggs Myers: Books

    Amazon.com: Please Understand Me II: Temperament, Character, Intelligence: David Keirsey: Books

    Amazon.com: Personality Type (Jung on the Hudson Book Series): Lenore Thomson: Books

    Amazon.com: Psychological Types (Collected Works of C.G. Jung Vol.6): C. G. Jung, Gerhard Adler, R. F.C. Hull: Books

    Amazon.com: The Art of Speed Reading People: How to Size People Up and Speak Their Language: Paul D. Tieger, Barbara Barron-Tieger: Books

    Read those, along with the books you just got, and you'll know pretty much the full range of common MBTI perspectives.

  6. #16
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Those seem... okay, I guess. I've brought tons of books on it, though, along with lots of information online. The Descriptions for Self-discovery and Activities for developing the 8 functions are probably the best of them, don't think the others you ordered really add much, honestly.

    But if you buy more, I'd recommend these:

    Amazon.com: Gifts Differing: Understanding Personality Type: Isabel Briggs Myers: Books

    Amazon.com: Please Understand Me II: Temperament, Character, Intelligence: David Keirsey: Books

    Amazon.com: Psychological Types (Collected Works of C.G. Jung Vol.6): C. G. Jung, Gerhard Adler, R. F.C. Hull: Books

    Amazon.com: The Art of Speed Reading People: How to Size People Up and Speak Their Language: Paul D. Tieger, Barbara Barron-Tieger: Books
    right, I don't thing they added much but what they gave that was worth it was clarity and understanding it since i think that was my main problem was me not knowing the basics as good.

    I'll definitely look into those to see if they have those at the library cause those look really good too. Thank you Athenian200

    Gifts differing definitely want to look into cause that's right from Isabel briggs myers. I heard she started the whole modification of Jung's work with type.

    Psychological types I also am definately happy about cause my library apparently has it floating around. They probably have gifts differing as well. I've seen it there before actually.

    I bet the library also could have the art of spead reading people too. I'll check that first for these books that are recommended.
    I know they have the PUM books from keirsey.

    Also going to check to see if my local library has any Lenore books as well.
    I know what those librarians think hehe Here come the quiet nerd again .

    Thanks everybody ^^D.

    Oh and Thanks Saslou it is very hard work right on but also very intriguing to figure people out in a way. Kinda like a puzzle not to sound like weird about it just it's fun ^^D like play.

    Sincerely,
    Dots
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  7. #17
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duchessoftheshadows View Post
    Oh and Thanks Saslou it is very hard work right on but also very intriguing to figure people out in a way. Kinda like a puzzle not to sound like weird about it just it's fun ^^D like play.
    No, i totally agree with you. It is cool to figure others out. Happy hunting.

  8. #18
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    thanks for the info, eric b. i remember the parts in lenore called left and right-brain alternatives. i'm interested to hear your thoughts on this. i also think lenore overdoes it a bit when she emphasizes the auxilary function as the answer to all psychological problems. i agree that the second function is probably most crucial in providing a stable platform for personality and the MOST complimentary balancing function to dominant, but it seems like she undermines the importance of tertiary and inferior in the different expressions of personality. overall tho, it is the best book i've read on mb/jung.

    i've checked out most of those enneagram sites, for some reason most of the enneagram literature just feels messier in my head than mb. i'm still working on correlations/connections between the two.

    finally, where do you recommend starting out with socionics? i think regardless of the way it is coded, the j or p denotation is mostly irrelevant. in mb it symbolizes left or right-brain, whether your first judgment function is introverted or extraverted. no more, no less. i agree that the type dynamics seem to be a useful beginning place to chart social interactions.

    i've read the exact same books. they've been pretty good, but i am interested now in seeing if any of these others are helpful. beebe maybe sounds like a good start. berens has some information online, but i wasn't sure if there was anything beyond the basic interaction styles (that seemed about as detailed as the "love languages" site- a useful start, but something that would probably be developed apart from the literature).

  9. #19
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    thanks for the info, eric b. i remember the parts in lenore called left and right-brain alternatives. i'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.
    You're Welcome!
    As I've said, I believe the mapping of the functions to the brain hemispheres is very interesting, and it could prove to give us the hard empirical proof we need to gain respect as a science, if it can ever be proven scientifically.
    It also helps explain why processes may not line up with Beebe's model. The 7h and 8th processes, while appearing to be something we would least use, do come up to fill in for the first and second.
    i also think lenore overdoes it a bit when she emphasizes the auxilary function as the answer to all psychological problems. i agree that the second function is probably most crucial in providing a stable platform for personality and the MOST complimentary balancing function to dominant,
    I did not get fully into her teaching on the auxiliary yet, but I could see why she might say that, as it is supposed to be our "supporting" function.
    but it seems like she undermines the importance of tertiary and inferior in the different expressions of personality.
    those do seem to be the weakest in practice, for a lot of people.
    I guess those in the traditional theory are supposed to be the ones that "fill in" for the dominant and auxiliary. But if your dominant fails, for instance, then the tertiary will be the same attitude, yet it will be the opposite kind of process (judging or perceiving). If your inferior kicks in instead, it will be the same kind of process, yet it wil be the opposite attitude. Both will be the opposite brain hemisphere. The 8th process, however, will be the same kind of process (though opposite dichotomy) with the same attitude, and same brain hemisphere. So it makes sense as the most effective process to fill in and keep the "balance".
    overall tho, it is the best book i've read on mb/jung.
    Never did get to the library today to read it Soon, though.
    finally, where do you recommend starting out with socionics? i think regardless of the way it is coded, the j or p denotation is mostly irrelevant. in mb it symbolizes left or right-brain, whether your first judgment function is introverted or extraverted. no more, no less. i agree that the type dynamics seem to be a useful beginning place to chart social interactions.
    I guess Wikisocion home - Wikisocion would be a great place to start. Gives all the information, and you can search for concepts. The other major Socionics site is ₪₪₪ Socionics - The New Psychology ₪₪₪ I don't even know of any books, but those sites seem pretty exhaustive.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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