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  1. #21
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Why would they be any more indecisive than anyone else? It's not like you use every function for every situation. I don't see an XXXX as someone who tries to use all 8 functions (Ne/Ni/Fe/etc) at the same time, in every situation. They'll favor certain functions, depending on the situation.
    Ok, maybe I should have thought my response through a little more, but I was getting ready for work and was about to run out the door when I wrote my response. I guess perhaps I was thinking more along the lines of a T/F conflict, because (and I could be totally off here as I have not studied MBTI for very long) I think that the T and F functions can show more on the outside than maybe J/P.

    Ok, for example, say a person is exactly equal in their T and F preferences and they are a head manager at a company. There comes a day when business is not going well at all, and it would be in the best interest of the company to lay off 100 people...however, those 100 people have been working at the company all their lives and they have no where else to go. I imagine someone who is both equally T & F would have a huge problem with this dilemma. You know what's best for the company, but you also care about the workers and their lives. Someone who is more T might still feel much distress about laying off those people, but rationally knows that if the cuts aren't made everyone will suffer. Someone who is more F would be much more distressed about the harm done to the layed off employees.

    I dunno if that explains my thoughts a little more, but I suppose I was thinking more in terms of head vs. heart decisions rather than in specific functions. And like Jen mentioned, it's likely that younger people would experience this conflict more often than the matured adults.

  2. #22
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recoleta View Post
    Ok, for example, say a person is exactly equal in their T and F preferences and they are a head manager at a company. There comes a day when business is not going well at all, and it would be in the best interest of the company to lay off 100 people...however, those 100 people have been working at the company all their lives and they have no where else to go. I imagine someone who is both equally T & F would have a huge problem with this dilemma. You know what's best for the company, but you also care about the workers and their lives. Someone who is more T might still feel much distress about laying off those people, but rationally knows that if the cuts aren't made everyone will suffer. Someone who is more F would be much more distressed about the harm done to the laid off employees.
    I think that the T would lay them off with minimal discomfort even if they were friends, because they are concerned primarily with the good of the organization and their goals. An F would have a lot of reservations about laying them off if they were friends, might even be willing to give up their own job to avoid it. At least theoretically, that's how the types should respond according to their functional order, especially those with a dominant T or dominant F.

    I don't know how actual people would respond. Personally, I think if they were total strangers who didn't have the power to harm the person doing the firing, I don't really think either type would have a problem with firing them. (Except maybe INFP...)

  3. #23
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I think that the T would lay them off with minimal discomfort even if they were friends, because they are concerned primarily with the good of the organization and their goals. An F would have a lot of reservations about laying them off if they were friends, might even be willing to give up their own job to avoid it. At least theoretically, that's how the types should respond according to their functional order, especially those with a dominant T or dominant F.

    I don't know how actual people would respond. Personally, I think if they were total strangers who didn't have the power to harm the person doing the firing, I don't really think either type would have a problem with firing them.
    Exactly, if the manager had a strong preference toward either J or F the decision would be much easier. However, I was implying that the manager had been there just as long as those employees and they built and worked for the comany together for years and years etc. and if he/she was exactly down the middle in their T and F preference I think that having to make a decision like that could be crippling.

  4. #24
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recoleta View Post
    Exactly, if the manager had a strong preference toward either J or F the decision would be much easier. However, I was implying that the manager had been there just as long as those employees and they built and worked for the comany together for years and years etc. and if he/she was exactly down the middle in their T and F preference I think that having to make a decision like that could be crippling.
    Oh, I hadn't picked up on that, sorry. Well, I do think it would be crippling, but they would still have to make a choice. Either give up their position to someone else, file for bankruptcy when everything fell apart, or fire the people. It wouldn't be easy, but they would have to do it, and I'm sure they wouldn't be happy with any decision they made.

    Personally, I think the best decision for an F in that case would be to tell the others what was happening, and ask them to have anonymous vote on what should be done, and they would vote. If they voted to fire the people to save the company (which they likely would, hesitantly), then they could simply review their their opinion/the performance of each worker, and fire the ones they liked the least/didn't perform as well. T or F would only effect the method of firing if they really cared about the organization, and it would probably bring out the preference in them. A balanced person would likely use a combinations of methods.

  5. #25
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I think that when I'm at my best, I resemble an Exxx, with a very pronounced E and tied preferences for all the other dichotomies.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recoleta View Post
    Exactly, if the manager had a strong preference toward either J or F the decision would be much easier. However, I was implying that the manager had been there just as long as those employees and they built and worked for the comany together for years and years etc. and if he/she was exactly down the middle in their T and F preference I think that having to make a decision like that could be crippling.
    I simply disagree. First of all, every single decision we make uses a bit of T and F, regardless of our own awareness. There is no such thing as a purely T or purely F decision.

    I would say the same about S and N. Your N needs some sort of basis in the real world to be useful, at all, and I believe that comes from S. A sensor needs a least a little intuition to be able to function as a human being. Otherwise they might as well be a mindless drone.

    I could see an xxxP being indecisive, possibly crippled, but not an xxxx. In your example, that decision wouldn't be easy for anyone, regardless of type (unless they were a jerk, which has nothing to do with type).

    I don't think anyone is XXXX in every situation. I think they'll favor certain functions depending on the situation. For example, someone might favor NF around his SO. He might favor SP around friends, and SJ while at work. None of these preferences need to be particularly strong, just noticeable, and when averaged out, the individual appears to be XXXX.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I simply disagree. First of all, every single decision we make uses a bit of T and F, regardless of our own awareness. There is no such thing as a purely T or purely F decision.

    I would say the same about S and N. Your N needs some sort of basis in the real world to be useful, at all, and I believe that comes from S. A sensor needs a least a little intuition to be able to function as a human being. Otherwise they might as well be a mindless drone.

    I could see an xxxP being indecisive, possibly crippled, but not an xxxx. In your example, that decision wouldn't be easy for anyone, regardless of type (unless they were a jerk, which has nothing to do with type).

    I don't think anyone is XXXX in every situation. I think they'll favor certain functions depending on the situation. For example, someone might favor NF around his SO. He might favor SP around friends, and SJ while at work. None of these preferences need to be particularly strong, just noticeable, and when averaged out, the individual appears to be XXXX.
    Pigeonholing/stereotyping is the worst side-effect I see in even positing a type based personality theory (or even, graded single mode, instead of bi-modal, theories).

    On the one hand, you want predictive/repeatability powers that make a theory useful, on the other hand, "labels disable" (the types and monikers are used to limit peoples opportunities or to excuse bad behavior).

    There is a thorny philosophical problem that psychology (and many social sciences) have to contend with, that make creating good theories very difficult, and (to use a line from "The Matrix") the problem is choice.

    People appear to have free-will, and only a theory that can give predictable/reliable results in the face of free-will is adequate to be called scientific.

    That philosophical problem needs to be solved before I consider some of these theories (including Myers-Briggs, the Five-Factor model, and IQ) as "scientific".

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  8. #28
    Member Vicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    XXXX? Is that a new movie rating? Wow! That movies with that rating must be really explicit!!!!!
    I consider myself an XXXX.
    my mom said, "you better not go around saying to typewatchers, "I'm xxxx" unless you're planning on putting on a really good show"
    I'm like, "*snark* uhhh.. funny"
    yeah, I'm an xxxx.
    check out my signiture..

  9. #29
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicki View Post
    check out my signiture..
    You're 800% a person Vicki!!


  10. #30
    Member Vicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    You're 800% a person Vicki!!

    eh?
    if you mean they're saying each of those is a percentage of who I am.
    it's actually saying how much I am of each of those.
    still, that's funny

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