• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Ni and Si

run

New member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
466
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
How does this whole introverted information gathering thing work?

And how would it work as a dominant function? I mean, there's only so much information in one person. It seems oxymoronic.
 

Moiety

New member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,996
MBTI Type
ISFJ
It doesn't work. That's why they are evil functions. Much like extroverted judging (Te and Fe) which is also evil.
 

Apollanaut

Senior Mugwump
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
550
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Lenore Thomson defines it as follows:

"Introverted Perception dictates an interest in represented experience--words, facts, numbers, signs, and symbols: the kind of data that can be acquired or explored in the mind."

Here's a further definition of introverted perception from the Lenore Thomson wiki website:

A proposed definition: categorization without criteria.

Perhaps what Lenore means by Introverted Perception is an attitude of putting things you experience into categories, where the categories are chosen on the basis of whatever seems to you to fit the things, without serving a predefined purpose or criterion.

Taking an Si perspective, then, you simply find categories to put things in, and use these categories to build a rich network of mental associations that guide you to attend to the things that matter to you--to find those things in the midst of a predominantly overwhelming perceptual field.

Taking an Ni perspective, you attend to the nature of whatever categories you come across: what they contain and what they leave out, what they assume about the context where they're applied, what (probably unstated) purposes are served by those categories, what cannot be said in terms of those categories (and that, if said, might unravel their power to seem real and meaningful).

Si leads you to gradually accumulate a factual map of the world, or at least the parts of it that are of interest to you. Ni leads you to gradually accumulate an understanding of how different maps operate and to be able to compare the assumptions of different maps against each other.

In my experience (as a dominant Introverted Perceiver) this is how Si and Ni seem to operate in all 16 types. In Si and Ni dominant types (IJs) the need to refer to an internal map (Si) or system of maps (Ni) is of paramount importance to the way we understand reality.

This can make us seem very strange or eccentric to an outside observer, as our preferred response to an external stimulus, event or question is to "go inside" to relate it to our internal perceptual structure.

If we are prevented from doing this, say, by a rapid-fire series of questions, or a situation demanding an immediate response without time for internal pondering, then we may become very disorientated and confused. This is the exact opposite of extraverted perceiving types (EPs), who thrive on rapidly changing or stimulating external events, but get very lost, confused or even depressed when forced to explore their internal perceptions.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
...our preferred response to an external stimulus, event or question is to "go inside" to relate it to our internal perceptual structure.

If we are prevented from doing this, say, by a rapid-fire series of questions, or a situation demanding an immediate response without time for internal pondering, then we may become very disorientated and confused. This is the exact opposite of extraverted perceiving types (EPs), who thrive on rapidly changing or stimulating external events, but get very lost, confused or even depressed when forced to explore their internal perceptions.

Sounds good.

I thought maybe the Ni and Si worked by having an experience "shelved away" when it first occurs, then actually used later (that's the actual Ni or Si), pulling it up from the "internal" set of knowledge. Se, I guess, would just have almost zero "holding time," processing it as it happens, enabling the person to react nearly immediately. What do you think?

In other words, Run, of course information can't come endlessly from inside a person, but I guess it must pass through your person before being used as info (if you're using Ni or Si).
 
Last edited:

raz

Let's make this showy!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,523
MBTI Type
LoLz
Lenore Thomson defines it as follows:

"Introverted Perception dictates an interest in represented experience--words, facts, numbers, signs, and symbols: the kind of data that can be acquired or explored in the mind."

Here's a further definition of introverted perception from the Lenore Thomson wiki website:

A proposed definition: categorization without criteria.

Perhaps what Lenore means by Introverted Perception is an attitude of putting things you experience into categories, where the categories are chosen on the basis of whatever seems to you to fit the things, without serving a predefined purpose or criterion.

Taking an Si perspective, then, you simply find categories to put things in, and use these categories to build a rich network of mental associations that guide you to attend to the things that matter to you--to find those things in the midst of a predominantly overwhelming perceptual field.

Taking an Ni perspective, you attend to the nature of whatever categories you come across: what they contain and what they leave out, what they assume about the context where they're applied, what (probably unstated) purposes are served by those categories, what cannot be said in terms of those categories (and that, if said, might unravel their power to seem real and meaningful).

Si leads you to gradually accumulate a factual map of the world, or at least the parts of it that are of interest to you. Ni leads you to gradually accumulate an understanding of how different maps operate and to be able to compare the assumptions of different maps against each other.

In my experience (as a dominant Introverted Perceiver) this is how Si and Ni seem to operate in all 16 types. In Si and Ni dominant types (IJs) the need to refer to an internal map (Si) or system of maps (Ni) is of paramount importance to the way we understand reality.

This can make us seem very strange or eccentric to an outside observer, as our preferred response to an external stimulus, event or question is to "go inside" to relate it to our internal perceptual structure.

If we are prevented from doing this, say, by a rapid-fire series of questions, or a situation demanding an immediate response without time for internal pondering, then we may become very disorientated and confused. This is the exact opposite of extraverted perceiving types (EPs), who thrive on rapidly changing or stimulating external events, but get very lost, confused or even depressed when forced to explore their internal perceptions.

I love you. INFJs for president, IMO.
 

NewEra

New member
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
3,104
MBTI Type
I
Not too sure about Ni. However, Si is basically relating the past to the present, remembering detailed bits of information and facts from the past. This results from data storage.
 

Snow Turtle

New member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,335
Si also stores impressions which I suppose technically count as facts and data too.
 

raz

Let's make this showy!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,523
MBTI Type
LoLz
Like, if an INxJ and ISxJ are both asked to do something, it'll go like this:

The INxJ will look at it and think, "What does this do and what is it capable of?"

The ISxJ will look at it and think, "Do I have any experience that can aid me in this action? How different is my experience compared to this action I'm being asked?"

I like the map analogy, though. It'd seem that an IxTJ would refer to a map that guides them along impersonal objectives. An IxFJ would retain more maps that allow them to understand reality in terms of relating to the people around them. I constantly view my life in terms of objectives, from things I need to do within 1 minute to things I want to do within 1 decade. I just see it as something to do. It makes it hard to understand the IxFJs because they personalize it so much.

I just see other people as beings to interact with along the course of my own objectives, apart from the rare friends that are worth investing an emotional attachment in. Other people are something to find a system to allow my own understanding to be predictable.
 

Take Five

Supreme Allied Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
925
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
1w9
When asked to do something I immediately assess the thing and devise a system for doing it efficiently. The rest is all kind of subconscious I think.
 
Top