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Thread: Ni and Si

  1. #1
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Default Ni and Si

    How does this whole introverted information gathering thing work?

    And how would it work as a dominant function? I mean, there's only so much information in one person. It seems oxymoronic.

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    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    It doesn't work. That's why they are evil functions. Much like extroverted judging (Te and Fe) which is also evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    It doesn't work. That's why they are evil functions. Much like extroverted judging (Te and Fe) which is also evil.
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    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Lenore Thomson defines it as follows:

    "Introverted Perception dictates an interest in represented experience--words, facts, numbers, signs, and symbols: the kind of data that can be acquired or explored in the mind."

    Here's a further definition of introverted perception from the Lenore Thomson wiki website:

    A proposed definition: categorization without criteria.

    Perhaps what Lenore means by Introverted Perception is an attitude of putting things you experience into categories, where the categories are chosen on the basis of whatever seems to you to fit the things, without serving a predefined purpose or criterion.

    Taking an Si perspective, then, you simply find categories to put things in, and use these categories to build a rich network of mental associations that guide you to attend to the things that matter to you--to find those things in the midst of a predominantly overwhelming perceptual field.

    Taking an Ni perspective, you attend to the nature of whatever categories you come across: what they contain and what they leave out, what they assume about the context where they're applied, what (probably unstated) purposes are served by those categories, what cannot be said in terms of those categories (and that, if said, might unravel their power to seem real and meaningful).

    Si leads you to gradually accumulate a factual map of the world, or at least the parts of it that are of interest to you. Ni leads you to gradually accumulate an understanding of how different maps operate and to be able to compare the assumptions of different maps against each other.

    In my experience (as a dominant Introverted Perceiver) this is how Si and Ni seem to operate in all 16 types. In Si and Ni dominant types (IJs) the need to refer to an internal map (Si) or system of maps (Ni) is of paramount importance to the way we understand reality.

    This can make us seem very strange or eccentric to an outside observer, as our preferred response to an external stimulus, event or question is to "go inside" to relate it to our internal perceptual structure.

    If we are prevented from doing this, say, by a rapid-fire series of questions, or a situation demanding an immediate response without time for internal pondering, then we may become very disorientated and confused. This is the exact opposite of extraverted perceiving types (EPs), who thrive on rapidly changing or stimulating external events, but get very lost, confused or even depressed when forced to explore their internal perceptions.
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    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    ...our preferred response to an external stimulus, event or question is to "go inside" to relate it to our internal perceptual structure.

    If we are prevented from doing this, say, by a rapid-fire series of questions, or a situation demanding an immediate response without time for internal pondering, then we may become very disorientated and confused. This is the exact opposite of extraverted perceiving types (EPs), who thrive on rapidly changing or stimulating external events, but get very lost, confused or even depressed when forced to explore their internal perceptions.
    Sounds good.

    I thought maybe the Ni and Si worked by having an experience "shelved away" when it first occurs, then actually used later (that's the actual Ni or Si), pulling it up from the "internal" set of knowledge. Se, I guess, would just have almost zero "holding time," processing it as it happens, enabling the person to react nearly immediately. What do you think?

    In other words, Run, of course information can't come endlessly from inside a person, but I guess it must pass through your person before being used as info (if you're using Ni or Si).
    Last edited by Cimarron; 06-05-2009 at 12:43 PM. Reason: contribution

  6. #6
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    Lenore Thomson defines it as follows:

    "Introverted Perception dictates an interest in represented experience--words, facts, numbers, signs, and symbols: the kind of data that can be acquired or explored in the mind."

    Here's a further definition of introverted perception from the Lenore Thomson wiki website:

    A proposed definition: categorization without criteria.

    Perhaps what Lenore means by Introverted Perception is an attitude of putting things you experience into categories, where the categories are chosen on the basis of whatever seems to you to fit the things, without serving a predefined purpose or criterion.

    Taking an Si perspective, then, you simply find categories to put things in, and use these categories to build a rich network of mental associations that guide you to attend to the things that matter to you--to find those things in the midst of a predominantly overwhelming perceptual field.

    Taking an Ni perspective, you attend to the nature of whatever categories you come across: what they contain and what they leave out, what they assume about the context where they're applied, what (probably unstated) purposes are served by those categories, what cannot be said in terms of those categories (and that, if said, might unravel their power to seem real and meaningful).

    Si leads you to gradually accumulate a factual map of the world, or at least the parts of it that are of interest to you. Ni leads you to gradually accumulate an understanding of how different maps operate and to be able to compare the assumptions of different maps against each other.

    In my experience (as a dominant Introverted Perceiver) this is how Si and Ni seem to operate in all 16 types. In Si and Ni dominant types (IJs) the need to refer to an internal map (Si) or system of maps (Ni) is of paramount importance to the way we understand reality.

    This can make us seem very strange or eccentric to an outside observer, as our preferred response to an external stimulus, event or question is to "go inside" to relate it to our internal perceptual structure.

    If we are prevented from doing this, say, by a rapid-fire series of questions, or a situation demanding an immediate response without time for internal pondering, then we may become very disorientated and confused. This is the exact opposite of extraverted perceiving types (EPs), who thrive on rapidly changing or stimulating external events, but get very lost, confused or even depressed when forced to explore their internal perceptions.
    I love you. INFJs for president, IMO.


  7. #7
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Not too sure about Ni. However, Si is basically relating the past to the present, remembering detailed bits of information and facts from the past. This results from data storage.

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    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Si also stores impressions which I suppose technically count as facts and data too.

  9. #9
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Like, if an INxJ and ISxJ are both asked to do something, it'll go like this:

    The INxJ will look at it and think, "What does this do and what is it capable of?"

    The ISxJ will look at it and think, "Do I have any experience that can aid me in this action? How different is my experience compared to this action I'm being asked?"

    I like the map analogy, though. It'd seem that an IxTJ would refer to a map that guides them along impersonal objectives. An IxFJ would retain more maps that allow them to understand reality in terms of relating to the people around them. I constantly view my life in terms of objectives, from things I need to do within 1 minute to things I want to do within 1 decade. I just see it as something to do. It makes it hard to understand the IxFJs because they personalize it so much.

    I just see other people as beings to interact with along the course of my own objectives, apart from the rare friends that are worth investing an emotional attachment in. Other people are something to find a system to allow my own understanding to be predictable.


  10. #10
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    When asked to do something I immediately assess the thing and devise a system for doing it efficiently. The rest is all kind of subconscious I think.
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