lol not all ISTJ's are that serious. In fact, I don't even like hearing about the seriousness right there. They must be very strong in some of the MBTI categories.Thus this came up in their use of Fe, which was Trickster. They were not really concerned with shared values (generally calling society an "insane asylum"), but when I was having problems with people, they appealed to external values, and even overestimated them, as Berens even says. Like suggesting I had trouble getting girls because I would sometimes have wrinkes in my clothes, or because they saw me with my shirt coming untucked sometimes. Yet one girl I liked would hang around with a bummy guy who was dirty from head to toe. I tried to tell them that couldn't be it, but then they appealed to their age and knowledge. So again, it was confusing for them to call society an insane asylum, but then criticize me for not going along with it. But that was their way of trying to motivate me to grow and survive in the world. When they did articulate Ti "principles", they were quite literally, "critical parents".
All of this came to mind recently, when at work, I was complaining about something. A lot of people in supervisory titles in this job seem to be ISTJ's. Everyone knows the system is screwy, but ISTJ's don't seem to like to hear complaining (unless they're the ones doing it the many times they're frustrated about something). So I get lectures about "being happy you have a job" and "it takes time to 'earn' your way up to seniority where things are easier", and then suggestions about looking for a new position. I didn't ask for any of that; I just voiced frustration with something. But that's what they do, and it was the same way with my parents. It seems that if the dominating type of society is ESTJ, then ISTJ (whom Keirsey called "the Inspector") is the supporter and enforcer of the system, even if they don't like everything about it. "That's life; just deal with it" is their motto.
My brother seems a little different, but then that's probably because he's younger. He's more like our parents in their younger, rebellious age, and his Ne and Fi haven't developed yet. He's like them in being totally unimpressed with type theory. He thinks it's just another category or "box" people are put into like race, (apparently, a negative reaction to Ti, and a sign he's not an ENTP, as he seems like in some ways) and everybody is just who they are. My parents also can't seem to get too interested in temperament theory (probably too abstract for them, still), but they're not as openly skeptical of it as my brother. They've basically "mellowed" in their age, and are also remorseful for being so cold in the past.
01-05-2009, 12:55 PM #211
01-05-2009, 12:56 PM #212
From reading all the responses, it seems like there's not a big correlation in personality and genetics. I know I'm really not like my parents, and it seems many of you aren't either. Very interesting.
01-05-2009, 06:45 PM #213I've seen this behavior you describe a lot -- where a complaint or expression of feeling is seen more as an irrelevant critique. Sometimes I think the advice is even meant to be helpful: They have a strong Si sense of the world and they know how they have to accommodate and work it (Te), so they're imparting wisdom, albeit more stoic and resigned to the way things are.
Definitely. I have had to grapple with ISxJ mentality a great deal recently and have really gotten a good grasp of how resistant to change they are. They want stability, and the litmus test is what has existed in the past. Yes, they'll change things that don't work in the least, but otherwise if it works, it is now the ideal; and everything is bent towards preserving it. I'm realizing there is almost a physical sense of vertigo that some of the experience when the world changes against their will around them; they can't figure out where to stand or even who they are, and nothing makes sense.
STJ tends to view things in a more authoritarian sense, so one lens they view the world through is subservience/rebellion. Some other types might seem rebellious, but more often they're just oblivious or indifferent to authority; I've seen younger SJs do things just to be socially cool (versus just being compliant), to assert that they aren't being dominated by authority, etc. It's a conscious paradigm, so often rebellion is a way to thwart authority rather than just a natural expression of the desire for autonomy.
It's pretty common to see them "settle down" later and become "productive members of society," it seems part of the traditional narrative, and they tend to read other people's behavior as either being compliant or rebellious.
01-05-2009, 06:52 PM #214
sister: probably isfj or esfj (too early to type)
grandma 1: isfj
grandpa 1: intp
grandpa 2: estj (loved him !)
grandma 2: enfp
uncle 1: istj
aunt 1: no clue
uncle 2: isfp
aunt 2: no clue
01-05-2009, 10:51 PM #215
01-05-2009, 11:28 PM #216
INFP Younger Brother
ESTP Younger Brother
I got along best with my dad growing up.Ti (43); Ne (41.8); Te (33.7); Fi (30.5); Ni (27.5); Se (24.7); Si (21.5); Fe (17.3)
The More You Know the Less You Need. - Aboriginal Saying
01-05-2009, 11:36 PM #217
01-05-2009, 11:52 PM #218
01-06-2009, 02:50 AM #219
^ both to the EXTREME.
maternal grandparents didn't really speak english, so I don't know.
Paternal grandfather... probably INTP? or J?
Paternal grandmother, probably ESFJ, or something.
majority of relatives on my mothers side have at least E, S or J.
01-06-2009, 04:24 AM #220
Dad: INFP (I always describe him to friends as "a guy a lot like Clark Kent")
You can imagine the emotional arguments we had (have) in my family, especially between my parents and between my sisters. No rationality at all. It was insanely annoying for me, always playing the rational peacemaker. Luckily for me, no one was too extreme in their F-ness (except maybe my oldest sister).
I've been thinking that most of my immediate relatives are introverts. They never seemed that way to me before, but now it all makes sense. Outspoken inside the family, but few close family friends.
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