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  1. #11
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I've never had an ESTP bark orders at me. Or an ENTJ either. (ESTJ, yes. definitely).

    In my experience: an ESTP will always try to "friend" me or disarm me first and size me up. An ENTJ will just get straight to the point.

    EDIT: also, an ESTP will spend the first 10 minutes telling me all about their past achievements and qualifications. Really talk about themselves, their backgrounds and their strong points. An ENTJ will spend the first 10 minutes getting you up to speed on the project and the company's organization...
    Sounds like you've met some pretty great ENTJs.

    I had an ESTP basically bark an order at me recently, and the way he did it reminded me a lot of my ENTJ ex-girlfriend...and so I started wondering if he was actually ENTJ, but everything else I'd picked up about him before pointed toward ESTP. He fits a lot of SP temperament characteristics, but he occasionally goes into order-barking mode and it's kind of strange...but he doesn't really give the ESTJ vibe.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #12
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Sounds like you've met some pretty great ENTJs.

    I had an ESTP basically bark an order at me recently, and the way he did it reminded me a lot of my ENTJ ex-girlfriend...and so I started wondering if he was actually ENTJ, but everything else I'd picked up about him before pointed toward ESTP. He fits a lot of SP temperament characteristics, but he occasionally goes into order-barking mode and it's kind of strange...but he doesn't really give the ESTJ vibe.
    Maybe all of it is true, I don't know. This MBTI stuff... at the end of the day, does it really matter?

    I guess if I really buy into it, I would say, IME, that when an ESTP is upset with me, s/he insults my character first whereas an ENTJ would insult my intelligence first. But anyone is capable of anything... who knows.

  3. #13
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    For some reason, if I don't know a person much, when they're in I-want-something-and-I'm-going-to-argue-for-it mode, I have a certain peculiar difficulty differentiating between ESTP and ENTJ.

    ESTJ and ENTP have more signature tip-off behaviors that separate them from the other two ExTx types, but it seems that when it comes to trying to persuade others, ENTJ and ESTP approach certain things very similarly, but for largely different reasons.

    What tips you off, besides the obvious?
    I've noticed that too - ENTJs often behave like ESTPs in social situations.

    The reason I say ENTJs behaving as ESTPs instead of ESTPs behaving as ENTJs, is because I am convinced that ENTJs emulate ESTPs, because they view ESTPs behavior as "socially successful".

    ESTPs (males) view of power is often directly related to being virile and masculine. That's why probably the biggest insult to an ESTP man is to be called gay since in our society it implies being effeminate (i.e. physically weak).

    ENTJs have a more encompassing view of power and success than ESTPs.
    They don't just want physical prowess - they also want social prowess, intellectual prowess, financial prowess, etc. That's why ENTJs try to emulate different types for different reasons. They see ESTPs as being socially successful, so they act like them in social situations. When talking about intellectual topics, ENTJs will often go into introverted NT mode, because they view INTs as the most intellectually sound. In business they try to act like ENTPs (i.e. opportunistic risk takers), etc etc.

    That's my theory anyway.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  4. #14
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    ENTJ's are frauds.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #15
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I agree that I can look similar to an ESTP, in certain settings - for example, at a club, or when playing sports (but then, even an ENTP might be similar to an ESTP when dealing with primarly sensing tasks). However, we are quite different in terms of which people we prefer to hang out with (this is a typical situation where socionics can be more helpful than MBTI in figuring out one's person type), and obviously I am more intellectual than them - while they are better at dealing with situations on the spot.

    I don't "act like an ESTP" because I want to emulate them, lol. It's simply that there is a specific context where our reactions to the environment are the same.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #16
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    Sorry Edgar but I believe that to be complete BS as I've never seen ENTJs I know or famous ones emulate us successfully

    Actually I used to be good friends with an ENTJ

    He would value what he deems to be the intelligent way to go about something
    I would value the fastest most effective way to go about something

    I don't know about ESTPs barking orders... it's never happened to me, maybe ESTJ... which would also be more likely as they are a much higher percentage of the population

    To describe how ESTPs get people to do things is more like after you have done the task with a huge grin on your face you think "hey.... wait a min!"

  7. #17
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    Sorry Edgar but I believe that to be complete BS as I've never seen ENTJs I know or famous ones emulate us successfully

    Actually I used to be good friends with an ENTJ

    He would value what he deems to be the intelligent way to go about something
    I would value the fastest most effective way to go about something
    Well, it could be argued that ESTP personality is the most likely to achieve social success, therefore, ESTP like behavior is the most effective way to go about achieving that.

    And just to clear up, they do the "ESTP thing" for only specific reasons, not constantly (i.e. apply the most effective technique suitable to a specific situation)
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  8. #18
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    Oh yeah but its like FDG said its more situational and I don't see thats relevant as if I was among a bunch of hippies (for example) I'd be acting differently than I usually do as well

    I personally think that ESTPs are the most situationally adaptable type anyway

  9. #19
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ ESTPs are quite adaptable, yes...but I can see where Edgar is coming from with the ENTJ emulation thing. That's definitely something NTs do--notice the successful strategies that other types use naturally and learn how to incorporate their elements into our own approach.

    Whether or not they actually succeed in accurately imitating ESTPs wasn't the point; if they're trying to, then we've come to a useful conclusion here in terms of my question in the OP.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ^ ESTPs are quite adaptable, yes...but I can see where Edgar is coming from with the ENTJ emulation thing. That's definitely something NTs do--notice the successful strategies that other types use naturally and learn how to incorporate their elements into our own approach.

    Whether or not they actually succeed in accurately imitating ESTPs wasn't the point; if they're trying to, then we've come to a useful conclusion here in terms of my question in the OP.
    Indeed, I mean sh*t who wouldn't want to be like us? Don't blame em

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