ancestry, culture and type

[Haphazard]

i ponder if it there have been recorded events of mostly N and mostly S cultures that may have lived in symbiosis. i mean, it wouldn't be that far fetched - after all, a tribe would always protect the village elders... right?

Yes but in that case of the normal people protecting the elders, they're still of the same stock, that they've earned the right to be elders by doing something, and that something besides preference has made them wise, like age. That simile doesn't really make any sense to me.

Also, I don't see why you've chosen the east as being the most 'N'. It seems as arbitrary as choosing the 'west'. What evidence have you got for it to make this guess?

What about poor Australia? Where's Australia fit into this?

 

[Blackmail!]

Blackmail's a Frenchman.

And Bananatrombones lives in London.

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We should wait until Victor sees that too.

 

[Thalassa]

I don't think many cultures would have survived very long if they were mostly N.

No offense to Ns. Just sayin'.

I don't know. Seems to me with Ns running the show there would actually be less war and more precautions taken to rationally preserve life.

Then again, this entire thread is filled with nothing more than stereotypes about MBTI, Americans, and god knows what else.

I disapprove.

 

[Sentura]

It's not a question of "political correctness", and furthermore it's rather a lame alibi.

It's not even a question of trolling, it's rather a question of references, and how you define the MBTI system as a whole.

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Why should I answer to a thread that assumes there is a direct causality effect between my ancestry, my "race" and my possible type?

i don't assume anymore than what i listed in the theorem in the first post. this thread was supposed to call for data and discussion for whether there would be more intuits the further east you go; and not arguing superior races or cultures. it's a question of understanding and analysis rather than judgment and resentment.

but you know, there's always free will. if you don't like it, you can always leave. i have no intent with this other than discussing the possibilities of that theorem.

 

[Haphazard]

We should wait until Victor sees that too.

Oh dear Lord.

Then again, this entire thread is filled with nothing more than stereotypes about MBTI, Americans, and god knows what else.

I disapprove.

Ah yes, we Americans are horrible little beasties.

 

[Blackmail!]

and can everybody stop being an emo about racism and so on, those posts just polute the thread and make it hard to read. We get it, your fragile, keep walking.

My dear Eck: Do you really think it's a question of being an "emo" or not here?

Besides, so far, the purpose of this thread has been criticized by NTs only. Interesting point, isn't it?

 

[Sentura]

Also, I don't see why you've chosen the east as being the most 'N'. It seems as arbitrary as choosing the 'west'. What evidence have you got for it to make this guess?

i based it on the theory that the earliest sapient humans came from india, as well as the spiritual influences that far-eastern countries have had. i guess you could make a point about having the same in the far-west culture, if you go by nativity.

 

[Thalassa]

Besides, so far, the purpose of this thread has been criticized by NTs only. Interesting point, isn't it?

Actually, it was also criticized by me, and I'm an INFP

But anyone who is educated knows that type would be more heavily influenced by CULTURE than race. Race is the basis of absolutely nothing.

 

[Sentura]

My dear Eck: Do you really think it's a question of being an "emo" or not here?

Besides, so far, the purpose of this thread has been criticized by NTs only. Interesting point, isn't it?

do you have anything to add besides your obvious disapproval?

 

[Haphazard]

i based it on the theory that the earliest sapient humans came from india, as well as the spiritual influences that far-eastern countries have had. i guess you could make a point about having the same in the far-west culture, if you go by nativity.

The thing I've noticed though is that spiritual influence (as in, religion and spirituality) seem to be opposing cultural values in both the east and west. How do we reconcile this?

 

[EcK]

My dear Eck: Do you really think it's a question of being an "emo" or not here?

Besides, so far, the purpose of this thread has been criticized by NTs only. Interesting point, isn't it?

I just had to use a strong word so people would maybe notice I actually said something since most of the thread is a back and forth rock throwing competition. And I did notice the NT thing, it's more about intellectual terror\territorialism if you will than anything else. Meaning we consider bad rationals to be unworthy and fun to set on fire because it's right up our alley.

 

[Sentura]

The thing I've noticed though is that spiritual influence (as in, religion and spirituality) seem to be opposing cultural values in both the east and west. How do we reconcile this?

i'm not sure i understand your question..

native american culture would seem to incorporate some of the same spiritual beliefs as eastern culture, like the notion of reincarnation.

 

[juggernaut]

i based it on the theory that the earliest sapient humans came from india, as well as the spiritual influences that far-eastern countries have had. i guess you could make a point about having the same in the far-west culture, if you go by nativity.

Just a quick question, on what are you basing "sapience"? Which species are using? The oldest hominid remains did not come from India. The oldest anatomically modern human remains were found in Ethiopia.

 

[Haphazard]

i'm not sure i understand your question..

native american culture would seem to incorporate some of the same spiritual beliefs as eastern culture, like the notion of reincarnation.

I mean that in Eastern religions it's generally internal, while in Western it's generally external and very community-oriented.


However Western culture emphasizes individualism while Eastern emphasizes the good of the group.

You see what I mean?

 

[Thalassa]

i'm not sure i understand your question..

native american culture would seem to incorporate some of the same spiritual beliefs as eastern culture, like the notion of reincarnation.

Here you seem to assume that Native American culture has a real bearing on present-day United States, but it does not. The culture in the US is much more influenced by the British than by Native Americans, and has been for several centuries. If I had to throw a label on Native American culture I would call it NF, whereas most Americans these days are SJs/SPs. Again, that's CULTURAL, not racial.

The reason why people are irritated with this thread is because basing anything on race is pseudo-science that has a greater place in the narcissistic ramblings of Mein Kampf than a rational discussion in 2009.

 

[EcK]

The big issue with taking bits and pieces of cultures is not only that there's just too much parameters but also that, you can interpret it both ways.
For example

native american culture would seem to incorporate some of the same spiritual beliefs as eastern culture, like the notion of reincarnation.

What about spirituality and beliefs in reincarnation, we could say it's not rational\left brained logics, but then you can see that empirically primitive people did indeed see that everything was going through cycles in their lives, so if they rationaly applied this logic to their own selves. We have a natural instinctual belief that our mind are somewhat different of our body because of our ability for metacognition.
So using analogical thinking and infering some a man could easily start seeing the ressurection of his own spirit-object into a new body-object as we don't really see the two to be ultimately one thing.

So it could both be called 'right brained holistic 'everything-is-tied-together' thinking OR 'left handed empirical, object based rational thinking'.

it's both, we have two brains and use boths, and you can't start connecting that to mbti before you understand what sorts of parameter influence the way data will be analysed within the brain. Which we don't yet. And mbti isn't a scientifically proven theory, it's a vaguely empirical best-fit-is-your-fit not scientificaly tested or biologicaly supported theory.

 

[FDG]

Just a quick question, on what are you basing "sapience"? Which species are using? The oldest hominid remains did not come from India. The oldest anatomically modern human remains were found in Ethiopia.

It's funny, because now in Ethiopia they have some problems descending from the fact that they're the birthplace of mankind; for example, there are a lot of cultures that have evolved in parallel, with completely different language and traditions, that now find themselves united under the same flag. There are more than 80 different languages spoken there, most of them (quite incredibly) NOT mutually intelligibile

 

[Sentura]

Here you seem to assume that Native American culture has a real bearing on present-day United States, but it does not. The culture in the US is much more influenced by the British than by Native Americans, and has been for several centuries. If I had to throw a label on Native American culture I would call it NF, whereas most Americans these days are SJs/SPs. Again, that's CULTURAL, not racial.

i'm not talking about present day american culture. i am talking about the culture of native americans (north, south, middle) versus those of eastern cultures.

The reason why people are irritated with this thread is because basing anything on race is pseudo-science that has a greater place in the narcissistic ramblings of Mein Kampf than a rational discussion in 2009.

point taken, but this was not the semantic i had wanted in the first place.

 

[nightning]

i'm not saying it's true, i haven't proven it in any way. but with the seemingly spiritual mentality far-eastern countries have had for millennia, i would be inclined to think that they realized (and practiced) their intuition long before western civilization.

Maybe for a small number of highly publicized groups... Not sure where exactly you're referring to when you say "far-eastern countries", but for the most part of southern Asia cultures have a strong SJ-like mentality. Especially in rural areas. They need it for close family ties so they could survive in years of poor harvest.

Nowadays though pretty much everywhere is getting "westernized". Traditions may go poof.

do you personally feel either of these cultures have influenced you? (i assume you live in the US, stop me if i am wrong)

I'm a Chinese Canadian. I referred to America loosely for North America...

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. I think it's fair to say that if you're immersed in any culture, you're bound to be influenced by it. People aren't hermits. You adapt to fit in. Your original beliefs always color your thinking though.

 

[juggernaut]

It's funny, because now in Ethiopia they have some problems descending from the fact that they're the birthplace of mankind; for example, there are a lot of cultures that have evolved in parallel, with completely different language and traditions, that now find themselves united under the same flag. There are more than 80 different languages spoken there, most of them (quite incredibly) NOT mutually intelligibile

Exactly! That was why I asked to be honest (and why I made the previous book recommendation). I don't want to fuel the fire here, but I do think it's important to get the foundational information as straight as one can when taking a pet hypothesis out for a spin. There's certainly nothing wrong with asking what look like fucked up questions (though I do think this might have been a linguistic issue more than a genuine case of race racism from Sentura), provided one starts with all their ducks in a row.