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  1. #11
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Aderack: I see, thanks.



    This may be a stupid question, but then again, I'm pretty new to MBTI: if you're recalling data about something you've learned, but not personally experienced (say, facts about a historical figure), do you use your Si or something totally different?

    Sortof. You could say something you learned was a personal experience. There's a difference between your memory and Introverted Sensing. It's more about having a reliance on past information to structure your environment. Someone with strong Si is more of able to relive experiences mentally because they can recall the general experience in greater detail than other people.


  2. #12
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    So Si is 'creating a structured environment by depending on personal experiences', which does not necessarily imply a better memory in itself, but - by frequent usage - it could help the Si-user to develop one's innate memory (?)

    That's it, I suppose. Thanks for the enlightenment

  3. #13
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    So Si is 'creating a structured environment by depending on personal experiences', which does not necessarily imply a better memory in itself, but - by frequent usage - it could help the Si-user to develop one's innate memory (?)

    That's it, I suppose. Thanks for the enlightenment
    Basically, yeah. Extraverted Sensing moves you to adapt yourself to experience the environment. Introverted Sensing makes you adapt the environment to your personal experiences of what it should be.


  4. #14
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    I seem to remember reading something Jung himself wrote in "Psychological Types". It was along the lines of saying that the 8 type functions by no means represented the whole of human cognition, and excluded other facilities such as imagination, willpower and memory.

    I would hazard a guess that all four of the introverted functions draw heavily from our personal memories (in different ways). The extraverted functions are more associated with external, real-time events and information.

    I actually have an excellent memory, even though as an INFJ I supposedly have Si as my weakest function in the 8-function type model. However, my memory is based on general impressions and vague hints which lead me to the required piece of knowledge.

    In contrast, Si, as I understand it, excels at storing and recalling sensory information in amazing clarity and detail. It is also great for noticing subtle details in the immediate environment when they differ from how things are "supposed" to be.

    Even though my memories start at a very early age (2 or 3 years old) they are very sparse on detail. I find it hard to remember people's faces or names, for example. It takes quite a lot of time and effort for me to pull out the full details of a specific memory.

    I had a very good friend at my old workplace who shared my interest in type and who was a confirmed ISFJ. We used to enjoy sharing our different internal perceptions, as we were superficially quite similar (both being IFJs), but our internal experiences were very different. Talking with my friend gave me a much better understanding of how Si works as a dominant function. She had an extraordinary ability to recall precise and accurate details from her memory; especially relating to the people in her life. In contrast to me, she always remembered people's names, as well as a host of personal information relating to each person. She was the go-to person for workplace gossip, as she somehow knew exactly what was going on with everyone. She could tell who was having affairs and who was under stress, merely by observing subtle clues and hearing snippets from other people. However, she didn't tittle-tattle - as an introvert she only shared her information with people she could trust to be discreet, such as myself.

    She in turn was amazed by my introverted intuition and rich imagination. She once told me she had very little imagination, but I had already observed that when she was recalling a memory, her eyes became unfocussed and she "tuned out" as she formed her vivid mental reconstructions. I do the same thing when using my Ni to conjure imaginary scenarios. I guessed that she probably used her imagination in service to her memory, whereas I do the opposite, my imagination is dominant and my memory subordinate to it.

    This makes a lot of sense of the idea that Ni and Si are truly opposite functions. If they work the way I have conjectured, then they must compete with each other for the same resources in the brain. Specialising in Ni as a function would push Si deep into the unconscious, and vice versa.

    Thoughts, anyone?
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    My memory is not that brilliant, however I do have the whole comparison of data thing going on with Si. It needn't be detailed, it can be a vague impression giving the sense of "Something's out of place"

  6. #16
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Is it the "trivia" function?
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  7. #17
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    I will say that I have a pretty damn good memory for remembering facts, details, and dates. I'm not a very innovative or creative guy but my memory for these types of things is very good, so much so that everyone has commented on how good it is. And my primary cognitive function is Si, so you may have something there.

  8. #18
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    memory for what, is the question here (asking an NFP how he/she felt over the past weekend can be an hour long explanation, for example)

    Si seems to be associated with episodic/event related memories, precise passages/dialogues of a literary work, exact quotes, and so on.

  9. #19
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post

    I would hazard a guess that all four of the introverted functions draw heavily from our personal memories (in different ways). The extraverted functions are more associated with external, real-time events and information.
    Exactly, but for Si and Ni alone, think of it this way. An Si user uses their memory to structure their surroundings based on what they know from the past. An Ni user, however, uses their memory to make seemingly random jumps in knowledge. A passage from a book I read about Ni said that to an Ni user, the answer to a problem already exists within us, we just have to find it. If you think about that, Ni is a function that in one way morphs your memory to give you your intuitive perceptions.

    Not sure where Ti and Fi fit into that, though.


  10. #20
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    Extraverted Sensing implies experiencing the world around you in terms of your five senses, and adjusting yourself to accommodate. It's more about the experience itself. Introverted Sensing is described as packaging our sensational impressions and taking them with us. It's more of recalling the experience as a whole.

    It can be implied that people with Si are going to have better memory, but people are still able to use a variety of techniques to improve their recall. Introverted Sensing is more about comparing internal sensational impressions to the external world. How does what you know compare to what you're doing? If it's different, how will you change your environment? That's where the judgment function comes into play.
    I like that description. And Nozflubber's sounded good, too.

    But it isn't exactly the same as "memory", it's not that simple. Information such as "things I've read somewhere" can definitely be Si working, I think.

    The funny thing I've found is that the "impression" that I get from an event can be remembered long after the event itself has been forgotten. Sometimes, the impression somehow becomes detached from the original hard-facts of the event.

    The topic of "moral/social values" is an interesting case; I think Jock tried to point out that it comes from expectations built up from data/experiences acquired over time, and when using that to examine current problems, that's Si. Moral and social structure can be built from that Si input along with Te (or Fe), but there's much more that Si and Te can do, also, so I think that's only part of it.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 05-20-2009 at 07:03 AM. Reason: applies to ISFJs as well
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