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  1. #11
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    there isn't someone you can go to to confirm something as right or wrong
    Ask away.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    It's ridiculous because it totally throws off the function order..
    Function theory is a paradox. Ne Fi Te Si...yeah, not me....I mean, look at your own function order.

    Function theory makes it even harder to stereotype. And if MBTI doesn't care to stereotype even a little bit...it's useless. Which might actually be true.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Azseroffs's Avatar
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    MBTI is good at describing behaviors, but when you start trying to explain mental processes, it gets fuzzy.
    ENTJ LIE
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    3w4(4w5)-5w6(6w7)-9w8(1w9)

  4. #14
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azseroffs View Post
    MBTI is good at describing behaviors, but when you start trying to explain mental processes, it gets fuzzy.
    I think of it as the other way round.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  5. #15
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    From an Extraverted Perceiver's standpoint, freedom means the unfettered ability to respond to immediate experience - the absence of structure and expectation. For Judging types, however, it's the absence of rational structure that traps us, forcing us to respond to things as they happen, to forfeit plans and goals, to depend on the bounty of fate.
    The wording is weak, but it works.

  6. #16
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    And yet I never said it was a universal truth...

    It's ridiculous because it totally throws off the function order. That's mostly why it makes no sense to have an X there.
    oh yes you did, you made it sound like it was, ah, ridiculous to even consider being something else than the MBTI archetypes.

    function orders aren't complete either; it may be very well that there are function orders which do not fit into any of the 16 archetypes. since the proof of claim rests of the plaintiff, i'd like to you to prove that there are only those function orders that the MBTI suggests.

    here's a hint: you can't, because proofs of this nature are empirical.
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  7. #17
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    How does this support that claim? I can see some overlap in the definitions of "freedom" for J and P types, where an X would fit quite nicely.
    Exactly. Even though I don't claim to be an X, I often find myself pulled between the need for security, structure, and planning and the longing to be free/independent, spontaneous, and open. In fact, I don't really understand how someone can claim that a person wants either one or the other. Call me crazy, but I prefer a planned, logical structure that is open and allows me a certain kind of freedom and spontaneity.

    Let me give you an example. Teaching.

    So, I have all the materials mapped out for me. The books. The worksheets. The general gist. But I have the freedom to plan my lessons based on those things as I see fit, including adding my own ideas, materials, and spontaneous whooshes (out of nowhere I get a brilliant idea just in the middle of a lesson that I can 'plan' within 30 seconds).

    Someone else plans my schedule. I love the plan. The structure. I map out my schedule 8 weeks in advance for two reasons: I need to know what's going on AND I get the best lessons that way because usually people plan only one week in advance if at all. My blue diary is my best friend: I call it my 'brain'. HOWEVER, I am spontaneous enough to change my plan, move people around as necessary, to fit people's needs.

    Someone ELSE gets the customers. I hate having to do that. I want the freedom to plan my lessons - to FOCUS on the matter at hand. But I also draw other clients to my school, always without trying...

    If something is open, I don't like it. I like to know if someone is actually going to cancel. I'm quite anal retentive about that. I need the plan. BUT if someone ELSE tries to control my lessons - like that time they had the ridiculous idea of having people watch the lessons - I get angry, literally angry. Like damn, give me my space, you fool!!!

    This is only one example out of many in my life where I want a balance between planning and openness. I don't think they are necessarily diametrically opposed.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  8. #18
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    oh yes you did, you made it sound like it was, ah, ridiculous to even consider being something else than the MBTI archetypes.

    function orders aren't complete either; it may be very well that there are function orders which do not fit into any of the 16 archetypes. since the proof of claim rests of the plaintiff, i'd like to you to prove that there are only those function orders that the MBTI suggests.

    here's a hint: you can't, because proofs of this nature are empirical.


    I've read that P's have some J traits in their lives in certain areas, and vice versa. But there is still a difference. If I remember correctly it said that in people's personal lives, a P type may take on some very much J traits for smaller decisions, while wanting to leave the ends open for larger decisions. J types apparently don't mind acting like a P with small decisions, but like for the larger ones to be final. That may clear up some confusion for some people. I can sure relate to that.

    EDIT: It just depends on what the person tends to naturally do, you can force yourself to take on J traits as a P, but you'll still be a P.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  9. #19
    Senior Member Azseroffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    I think of it as the other way round.
    I just see MBTI as reasoning for acting the way we do, but it isn't good for describing how someone perceives the world. Often they are strongly related, but they can be different. This is difference between socionics and MBTI imo.

    For example someone may act strongly T, and they would even type them self as T. But, they may see those who act strongly T in situations that require F as insulting or even disgusting even if they themselves didn't know how to handle the situation in an F way.

    I think we all agree that there are times for each dichotomy, but your mental processes effect how you view the world and to what extent you can go overboard with a dichotomy. How you behave may not always reflect that in an obvious way.
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  10. #20
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post


    I've read that P's have some J traits in their lives in certain areas, and vice versa. But there is still a difference. If I remember correctly it said that in people's personal lives, a P type may take on some very much J traits for smaller decisions, while wanting to leave the ends open for larger decisions. J types apparently don't mind acting like a P with small decisions, but like for the larger ones to be final. That may clear up some confusion for some people. I can sure relate to that.

    EDIT: It just depends on what the person tends to naturally do, you can force yourself to take on J traits as a P, but you'll still be a P.
    *thinking about this*

    Hmm...I would say....eh...damn, I'd say I'm the opposite.

    Wait, no, back up, let me rephrase.

    Okay, so I want things to be finalized, with the option of me backing up and trying again if necessary. Heh. If that makes any sense at all.

    For example, a lot of people say, "Holy crap in a handbasket, how could you make a huge step like moving to a totally different country???"

    Answer: Two reasons.

    A) I have always wanted to do it. I knew it. I did it. (Finalized - J)

    B) If it hadn't worked, I could have returned to the USA with little or no problems or concerns, and be right back where I started. Win-win situation (open - P).

    That's a huge-ass decision: moving to a new country. So yeah, I guess both.

    Getting married is a tougher decision, because you can't just 'back out.' Well you can, but I prefer not to based on my value system. Soooo, yeah, I was 27 before I got married, but I did so relatively quickly, after knowing the man for only two years. However, I wavered back and forth. Broke up once, came back together. WHEN I decide, though, it's forever, even though I still question it sometimes when I'm pissed off, but I think that's normal.

    So J or P. Heh. Still going with P.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

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