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  1. #31
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Sometimes you see something similar to this, but not always. F/T is the function that seems to be in the neighborhood of 50/50.
    In most professions it is an advantage to be a T. A significant advantage. There is an issue of team player which may come into play, but I don't correlate F-ness with being a team player. That is an extroverted trait. If you are a T, then when the finger pointing starts, politics get tense, you don't get sick and/or cry like a little girl. Except for settings like the PTA or such things, I think T trumps F almost every time in professional settings. If it didn't then I think the natural feminine traits would be much more easily accepted. I remember living with the label "the sweet one". Try living that down in a professional setting and see how it is to be an F. Not much of an advantage. Trust me on that one.

    Maybe there is a gender difference. Think about the stereotype of the successful professional woman as a bitch. Also think about the requirements to compartmentalize thinking in professional settings. The rules tend to be male-dominated. This masculine culture tends more towards the same traits associated with being a T. It is just as true in real life as it is on these boards that Thinking is correlated with intelligence and Feeling, well, not so much. The professional world holds this same stereotype although it is more articulated in terms of masculine vs. feminine rather than MBTI categories. The principles are nearly identical.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #32
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    In most professions it is an advantage to be a T. A significant advantage. There is an issue of team player which may come into play, but I don't correlate F-ness with being a team player. That is an extroverted trait. If you are a T, then when the finger pointing starts, politics get tense, you don't get sick and/or cry like a little girl. Except for settings like the PTA or such things, I think T trumps F almost every time in professional settings. If it didn't then I think the natural feminine traits would be much more easily accepted. I remember living with the label "the sweet one". Try living that down in a professional setting and see how it is to be an F. Not much of an advantage. Trust me on that one.

    Maybe there is a gender difference. Think about the stereotype of the successful professional woman as a bitch. Also think about the requirements to compartmentalize thinking in professional settings. The rules tend to be male-dominated. This masculine culture tends more towards the same traits associated with being a T.
    ...but when F is valued, it is Fe over Fi.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  3. #33
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    In most professions it is an advantage to be a T. A significant advantage. There is an issue of team player which may come into play, but I don't correlate F-ness with being a team player. That is an extroverted trait. If you are a T, then when the finger pointing starts, politics get tense, you don't get sick and/or cry like a little girl. Except for settings like the PTA or such things, I think T trumps F almost every time in professional settings. If it didn't then I think the natural feminine traits would be much more easily accepted. I remember living with the label "the sweet one". Try living that down in a professional setting and see how it is to be an F. Not much of an advantage. Trust me on that one.
    T is professionalism incarnate.
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  4. #34

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    It is an advantage to be a T in most jobs, sometimes Fe but mostly T. That's just the way that is. Objectivity rules the day, hide your values away.

  5. #35
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    This is interesting, a N-coworker and I were discussing this the other day. Both of us struggle to keep up with the details of our profession. I've been in it for decidely longer than she has, so she was asking me how I got round it. Basically I told her I learned to anticipate potential hurdles, and I learned how to concentrate for longer....althought if I was tired or sick, it was way harder for me to do. I also told it gets easier because you don't have to think about the actual act so much so you can concentrate on the details...and also that with time you get really good at catching your self glossing over things. So I had become a master of double checking. I blend in pretty well now.
    So to answer the OP, I have felt a certain amount of pressure, although with time my Ne certainly has given me an advantage with other aspects of my job (Politics mostly).
    Certainly you can tell by my conversation patterns, and the way I bunny hop through tasks (Ne multi tasking can drive some people nuts, but there is a huge dollop of Te being utilised also) that I'm intuitive. And truth be told, I've found being introverted in my profession to actually be a distinct advantage....I know most people can't say that, but it's true. It's a decided workplace advantage if I keep my cards close to my chest.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #36
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    ...but when F is valued, it is Fe over Fi.
    I agree. It would be nearly impossible to make a case to the contrary. Fi is arguably the least valued or used function in the world externally. Try to think of scenarios in which it results in power or money. Pretty tough to come up with a list.

    The introverts with Fe have a somewhat more complex relationship to the outside world. On the one hand they are in a position to more quickly develop those external skills than the Fi person, but are also morely likely to internalize the actualize negativity and have less ability to cope through internal escapism. I do think that the Fi dominants are the most overlooked and undervalued professionally. I see it in my field and mine is the performing arts where outsiders could easily assume F is a strength. Cut-throat competition weeds out any internal sensitivity. It makes these people physically sick and forces them out. The level of emotional communication that aids professionally is so shallow that it is easily faked. Because of that even Feelers have to fake it because it is not related to the actual thought processes of Feeling.

    I would argue that Te dominants have the greatest advantage and any types that can emulate that style will share that advantage.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #37
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Even middle management is very detail-oriented.

    Did you get that memo about the TPS cover sheets?
    okay, let's put it differently: having the overview of an entire company is still a detail in comparison to having an overview of the entire market economy. having the overview of the market economy is still a detail in comparison to having the overview of an entire country. having an overview of our planet is a detail in comparison to having an overview of the entire galaxy, universe or what may be beyond.

    so yeah, middle management is detail-oriented because there isn't anything that isn't detail oriented in our world. however, every detail needs an overview. you need an overview of a class or program to justify a code snippet, you need an overview of a paragraph to be able to read every sentence within.

    also, take a look at something here that isn't detail oriented (note while the locations may not be in the US, the company is based in america):

    https://jobs.ea.com/jobs/jobposting....0000000Gs7NAAS
    https://jobs.ea.com/jobs/jobposting....0000000HAKvAAO
    https://jobs.ea.com/jobs/jobposting....0000000HtnEAAS

    and additionally some that do not require any formal education:

    https://jobs.ea.com/jobs/jobposting....0000000HpxzAAC
    https://jobs.ea.com/jobs/jobposting....0000000HvGCAA0

    that was just looking for, what, some 5-10 minutes?
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  8. #38
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Actually, I feel pressured to act like an N, in my field (research). It's all about seeing the big picture, and connecting (seemingly) random pieces of information. I understand that this isn't the norm, but I don't think it's the only N-dominated field either.

    More than that though, I feel E-pressured. That may be because I'm a fairly strong I though.

    Just for comparison
    -end of thread-

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    okay, let's put it differently: having the overview of an entire company is still a detail in comparison to having an overview of the entire market economy. having the overview of the market economy is still a detail in comparison to having the overview of an entire country. having an overview of our planet is a detail in comparison to having an overview of the entire galaxy, universe or what may be beyond.

    so yeah, middle management is detail-oriented because there isn't anything that isn't detail oriented in our world. however, every detail needs an overview. you need an overview of a class or program to justify a code snippet, you need an overview of a paragraph to be able to read every sentence within.

    also, take a look at something here that isn't detail oriented (note while the locations may not be in the US, the company is based in america):

    https://jobs.ea.com/jobs/jobposting....0000000Gs7NAAS
    https://jobs.ea.com/jobs/jobposting....0000000HAKvAAO
    https://jobs.ea.com/jobs/jobposting....0000000HtnEAAS

    and additionally some that do not require any formal education:

    https://jobs.ea.com/jobs/jobposting....0000000HpxzAAC
    https://jobs.ea.com/jobs/jobposting....0000000HvGCAA0

    that was just looking for, what, some 5-10 minutes?
    Where's the cover sheet mentioned in the memo?

    EA is always looking for those people. They rarely hire though. It's just a "dream job" listing.

  10. #40
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Yes, I feel pressured to be an S. Could be coz I work as a secretary/receptionist. Details and organisation man..part of the job. I can multitask as no other, I'm good and thorough at what I do, but I do not do details or keep track of time well. And those things I fumble up or stress about so much in order to do them right that I cannot relax during the day. I try to learn but its...hopeless
    Also, during a task that is very detail-oriented, I check three times if I didn't forget something or looked over something. It makes me really perfectionistic and accurate, and I learned to do it fast, so I do a good job..but it stresses me to no end. Luckily the other aspects of my job are more up my alley

    One thing I seem to do perfectly fine is destress people that come to my station to just vent or unwind. Like my ESFJ boss...he needs to be able to share sometimes (he's really under a lot of pressure). Unfortunately that's just not part of my jobdescription though, so I'd be better off being an ESFJ myself in this job, considering the tasks that are in fact in my jobdescription
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