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Music and the 3rd function

527468

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It just hit me that two of my favorite composers seem to have this thing with their 3rd function. I think it's a source for music and I think it's a method. Beethoven urges to perfect his music little by little, and Ti helps by looking for just the right way to say something through music, coming up with a whole new sound. Mozart on the other end has less of a method, but it's still a method. His music seems to just come to him, and he writes as he goes, never fixing a single thing. Ni helps to inspire him through various sources. It never comes undone at the end, but it is not perfected like Beethoven's. Beethoven is typed as an INFJ and Mozart as an ISFP, and to a certain extent I can agree with those typings knowing just enough biography on them. So do you think the 3rd function can be a source for music and creativity and a way to master it? Or is it just a coincidence that these two composers match the profile? If these two analyses are correct, then maybe we have another perspective in which to type artists.
 

VagrantFarce

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I've read that the tertiary function could be our "creative" function, in that creativity is essentially ego-confirmation. So when we're being creative we make extensive use of our tertiary function. Can't find where I read it though.
 

Heart&Brain

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Mar 29, 2009
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ENFP
INTJ-male I know works with philosophy, debate and political implementation (Ni-Te). But he happens also to have composed songs his whole life and they are amazingly emotional. This makes sense according to your theory, Fi being his tertiary.
 

NewEra

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I
Very possible, because I listen to a lot of songs with heavy Fi meaning (and Fi is my 3rd function).
 

BlackCat

Shaman
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ESFP
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sx/sp
I tend to listen to a lot of the same music if I like it. I don't really see much of a need to switch it up. Si I suppose. I haven't gotten any new music in months.
 

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
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INFP
I think the ability to compose comes from...something else, but not a function that you can control.
I have melody running through my brain at almost all times, usually original, or at least a variation on something I've heard. I cannot control it. It just happens. My father had this 'gift' (or handicap) as well, although he was not a trained musician (I have no idea what his type was).
My theory is that there is some part of the brain that constantly plays with energy, and if you are musically inclined, this energy comes out as music. It is easily influenced by ambient sounds too. For example, yesterday I was entering a coffee shop, and could just barely hear the tune that was playing. The door made a series of sounds as it closed behind me, and I just incorporated it into the harmony of the song. That happens all the time. Fans can produce a white noise that can have this effect too.
I'm pretty sure this energy can just as easily come through as poetry, and probably many other art forms too.
I'm no Beethoven, but that's my experience. Maybe I misunderstood your post, but I don't think this kind of thing is related to type.
 

The Outsider

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Doesn't apply in my case at least.
 

TaylorS

Aspie Idealist
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Aug 6, 2007
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INFP
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so/sp
I, an INFJ, definitely relate to the description of Beethoven, and it probably explains why he is my favorite classical composer.
 

Walking Tourist

it's tea time!
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esfp
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7
So, Ti is my "creative" function?
I'd be interested if anyone can explain to me how that works.


I've read that the tertiary function could be our "creative" function, in that creativity is essentially ego-confirmation. So when we're being creative we make extensive use of our tertiary function. Can't find where I read it though.
 

Asterion

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Messages
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sp/sx
How would you know if you've just used Fe to create music? I think Fe would be used to mold other people's emotions with something you've created... I don't think I've ever done that, I tend to conform to someone else's genre to appeal to them. When I construct a song, I crave complexity, I combine concepts/melodies/riffs/techniques randomly and then judge the outcome (probably using Fe at that point). I'm almost never happy with my melodies, because I don't think other people will enjoy hearing it (same when I'm being creative in other areas too). The occasional creation passes through my set standards and then I'll show off a bit :D
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
How would you know if you've just used Fe to create music? I think Fe would be used to mold other people's emotions with something you've created... I don't think I've ever done that, I tend to conform to someone else's genre to appeal to them. When I construct a song, I crave complexity, I combine concepts/melodies/riffs/techniques randomly and then judge the outcome (probably using Fe at that point). I'm almost never happy with my melodies, because I don't think other people will enjoy hearing it (same when I'm being creative in other areas too). The occasional creation passes through my set standards and then I'll show off a bit :D
Theoretically, an EXFP woulf have Te as their tertiary function.
 

maliafee

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Feb 10, 2009
Messages
1,127
What's missing here is the incredible amount of theory shoved down both composers' throats for many years and at an extremely early age. So when they write it is with a lot of formula; even though there is incredible genius, that has to be taken into consideration. Mozart was able to take the formulas etched in him until they were a part of him and arrange them beautifully, perfectly. Beethoven tries to actually stretch those limits more.

It just hit me that two of my favorite composers seem to have this thing with their 3rd function. I think it's a source for music and I think it's a method. Beethoven urges to perfect his music little by little, and Ti helps by looking for just the right way to say something through music, coming up with a whole new sound. Mozart on the other end has less of a method, but it's still a method. His music seems to just come to him, and he writes as he goes, never fixing a single thing. Ni helps to inspire him through various sources. It never comes undone at the end, but it is not perfected like Beethoven's. Beethoven is typed as an INFJ and Mozart as an ISFP, and to a certain extent I can agree with those typings knowing just enough biography on them. So do you think the 3rd function can be a source for music and creativity and a way to master it? Or is it just a coincidence that these two composers match the profile? If these two analyses are correct, then maybe we have another perspective in which to type artists.
 

Asterion

Ruler of the Stars
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
2,331
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INTP
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5
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sp/sx
Theoretically, an EXFP woulf have Te as their tertiary function.

Theoretically, I'm not an EXFP... :devil:, I have a thread that dictates my type, It changes to whatever the people prefer it to be :smile:
 

Asterion

Ruler of the Stars
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INTP
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sp/sx
What a sly person you are! ;) hahaha Then that does explain your tertiary Fe then :devil:

... Perhaps too sly, I'm beginning to think that it's a bit nasty to trick people like that... :sorry: I'll chuck something in my signature

A Te would probably apply structure to their music. If it's anything like the way I seem to create music, It will go:
1. dominant function/secondary function in creation
2. tertiary in judgment
For ENFP, I suppose that Ne would bring concepts together, Fi would feel the music that results and know if it sounds right/wrong to them instantly, and then finally Te comes in and gives the song structure and backbone.
For ESFP, I have no idea what Se could do to help, except for give accurate hearing ability and supreme technical ability, Fi & Te would be same as ENFP.
 

Moiety

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ISFJ
I've read that the tertiary function could be our "creative" function, in that creativity is essentially ego-confirmation. So when we're being creative we make extensive use of our tertiary function. Can't find where I read it though.

Hmm...would make some sense for me I think. Since I was little, even though I never wanted to be a leader, was always fascinated by the director's role. Te is ENFPs relief function supposedly. (although my actual third strongest function is Ti)
 

The Outsider

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intp
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sx
Doesn't apply in my case at least.

Ok, so while I listen to a wide variety of music, without any seeming correlation to the functions...

... It is an interesting concept as an artistic function. I like to draw and paint. I'd say I can draw quite well, but I feel the safest and most comfortable drawing things that I know I can draw well, which is ironically probably caused by obsessing over these particular things. So, if you were to pick up my math notebook for example, you could see it filled with trees and lighthouses, sometimes human figures, with some recurring themes.

My point being, that it seems kind of Si'ish thingy.. :D
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
... Perhaps too sly, I'm beginning to think that it's a bit nasty to trick people like that... :sorry: I'll chuck something in my signature

A Te would probably apply structure to their music. If it's anything like the way I seem to create music, It will go:
1. dominant function/secondary function in creation
2. tertiary in judgment
For ENFP, I suppose that Ne would bring concepts together, Fi would feel the music that results and know if it sounds right/wrong to them instantly, and then finally Te comes in and gives the song structure and backbone.
For ESFP, I have no idea what Se could do to help, except for give accurate hearing ability and supreme technical ability, Fi & Te would be same as ENFP.

You need not apologize. :D
 
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