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  1. #11
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Opened it up and re-saved it.. said some features were incompatible with Word 97/2003 but it seems to be just fine. This may or may not work..

    Haven't had a chance to look over it in detail yet, but it looks interesting.
    Thank greed. imo, it looks pretty sound. i come from the philosophy that everyone has one of the 16 but any two of the same possesed preferences can be two completely different people yet maintain/be consistent with their leanings.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  2. #12
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    yep i agree with that...it's like the many shades of blue...ya know? they're all blue but quite different...or something.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #13
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Wow; this is just like what I had been trying to put together for a couple of years now. I go into it on my page Temperament Part 3: The Thought Box (discussion of methods used is above the table), and we even discussed the idea here, where Athenian introduced his own "intermediate pole" names, and some of the process orders (He also says Mondo first suggested the idea of "dynamic type" at some point):
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post267626

    I see in this chart, XXXX is missing, and apparently four others --looks like xSxx, xNxx, xxTx, and xxFx (since a third scale in the dichotomies should make it 81 types). Some who know something about five temperament theory, or at least realize the classic Phlegmatic's temperamental "neutrality", have said XXXX would be a pure Phlegmatic. That was what inspired me to try to put this together, but I have since realized that in both systems, there is no absolute middle in the scales (which in the Five Temperament system would be an e or w score of 4.5). So all temperament combinations will lean to one side or the other, and even the pure Phlegmatic would be divided between e/w=4 (I and/or task-focused) and 5 (E and/or people-focused).

    Still, it would have been nice for a possible Enneagram mapping.
    this new chart does seem accurate, as XNXP, for instance, are those who have high Ne, Fi and Ti. So in my case, it has been a matter of using the Beebe archetypes to see which really fit into which roles, and it really does match Ti-Ne-Si, with a strong daemon Fi; and the Cognitive Process test also helped; hence I was able to drop the X's last year.

    (the fact that I kept putting off arranging all those processes like this and ever got to it, shows that I do not have an inflated "relief" {tertiary} Te as some have thought. Just the thought of doing all that was tiring. So thanks, Jack!)
    Last edited by Eric B; 05-14-2009 at 06:37 PM.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  4. #14
    Senior Member jackandthebeast's Avatar
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    I don't completely understand your post, Eric B, but the reason that xSxx, xNxx, xxTx, xxFx, and xxxx are missing is that there are too many functions that would necessarily have to be on one side for the primary and shadow functions to be balanced.
    I would like it if you could explain some of what you were saying in more basic terms.

    To the other posters, The idea of the x patterns aren't saying that you're necessarily exactly in the middle between two traits but that you can have multiple and even opposing functions in the same place- of course there is still variation between amount of functions used. But if there's an x, the use of the two functions should be reasonably close. Some examples of people I know who are between two traits (that are more observable than J and P): my friend Diana, who's an IxFP, has Se and Ne both as 2nd function to her Fi as 1st; she's into virtually everything (both sensing and intuitive type information appeals to her), and she's told me that since she was younger she's observed a kind of consciousness shift, depending on the situation, between being aware of the world and being in her head, analyzing it. My friend Athia's an INxP, and she's both an idealist and a cynic- her first two functions are Fi and Ti. I have a younger cousin who's an ExTP, and he's a class clown- his sense of humor incorporates a lot of cross references from movies as well as physical humor, and his two first functions are Ne and Se, followed by Ti as 2nd.
    I also included some examples of types of characters/public figures underneath the charts- you can observe them and see if any of them seem to fit.

  5. #15
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Athenian actually did three of those five missing ones:

    ANBM [XNXX] -- Xx, Xx [N] Xx, Xx [s] (I/E not static, otherwise same as INBM[INXX].)

    ARFM [XXFX] -- Xx, Xx [F] Xx, Xx [T] (J/P not static, otherwise same as ARFJ[XXFJ]. Somewhere in first block is Fe or Fi, somewhere in second is Ti or Te. Exact position subject to change.)

    ARBM [XXXX] -- Xx, Xx, Xx, Xx (Everything is subject to change completely, although the functions are in an unknowable specific pattern at any given moment. Worst case scenario).

    I guess these would be hypothetical people with all or almost all of their functions developed.

    As to the other stuff I said, the Phlegmatic temperament has been described as at one time, the absence of temperament (no disposition in any diirection), so we would expect that to be the closest thing to an XXXX. Their main drive in life is said to be the preservation of their low energy, which would seem to be somewhere between S and N perception, and T and F judgment. (And their social behavior is generally ambiverted, and they can take people and tasks or leave them). But even that temperament will be divided by slight leanings to one side or another.
    So I've kind of given up on creating a truly moderate scale, though some aspects of this dynamic idea would seem useful. (But now you're saying you wouldn't have to be exactly in the middle. Still, the codes are based by definition on "preference", so whatever the preference, however slight, is what goes into the code).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  6. #16
    Senior Member jackandthebeast's Avatar
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    I was working off of the idea that the functions on both sides have to be balanced, (since with the basic 16 types you have four functions on each side). I figured out the functions so that the total is 36 and working from the ends you have either four pairs of nines or two pairs of nines and one pair of eighteen in the center. Since xSxx, xNxx, xxTx, xxFx, and xxxx place either 6 or eight functions in the primary functions and in the same position, the primary functions would have to be in a place lower than 1 to balance out with the shadow functions, and as lacking first functions would cause people to lack an orientation (you have to lean on something first), I don't believe that these five patterns can naturally occur, though I guess theoretically someone could manipulate their thought so that they arrive at one of these patterns.
    Thank you for using the word "ambiverted". I've never heard it before.

  7. #17
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    Author, get this published, put on Oprah for people with identity crises, then become famous.

  8. #18
    Senior Member jackandthebeast's Avatar
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    I can't tell if you're serious or not. No, I was hoping to put it on a website (though I don't know what free website sites are valid) and leave it at that. I got way too into it at some point, where I couldn't think or act naturally because I was analyzing the motivations behind everything I did. I completely lost my autonomy, and now I've pretty much regained it, but I'd like to give it some outlet so the theory's out there(so that i don't have to lament the wasted effort) and I can completely shake it from my psyche.

  9. #19
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Would I be able to use the tables on my site? (i.e. I would basically "host" your idea as an additional possibility).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  10. #20
    Senior Member jackandthebeast's Avatar
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    Yeah, if you could use my name, that'd be great. My name is Angelica Graue. And could you send me the link?

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