ESTP vs ENTJ

[FDG]

Since I've always been confused between these two types for myself, what are your experiences with them/most obvious differences between the two that you think are easier to discern in real life?

 

[Athenian200]

Uhh, you're definitely an ENTx in my book, FDG. I really don't see you as an ESTP. But then I don't know you in real life either.

I think ESTP's are very practical people. They can deal with most any situation and live by their wits. However, they aren't particularly good at planning or being decisive until the moment's upon them.

ENTJ's are very driven to control situations for the best results due to their Te. They are able to use their Ni to see how things could unfold, and prepare for several eventualities.

Which do you think you are?

 

[Recluse]

Both are quick-thinking, take-charge types who are direct with their words.


ESTPs [Han Solo]:

casual in dress (e.g., tie askew if they must wear a suit) and manner (hearty handshake/laughter)

earthy, especially in the humor department, and charming in a rough diamond kind of way

say what they think as they think it, and may stick their foot in their mouth at inopportune times (and possibly even try to talk with said foot still there)

competitiveness tends to be balanced by playfulness and may be expressed through roughhousing

can appear deceptively laidback unless enthused by an activity, and then may seem frenetic to an introverted type such as myself

divorce--and remarriage--seems to be fairly common among this type

feel caged in by too much structure and get restless, fidgety


ENTJs [Darth Vader]:

sharp-dressed (e.g., the tie will not be askew--it wouldn't dare!) and forceful in manner (they don't walk, they stride)

usually direct in speech but can sound convoluted if they're working through a concept or plan right as the words spill out (with an accompanying dreamy/deranged expression which becomes more fanatical as their thoughts solidify)

cerebral, spending more time in their minds than ES types, due to tendency to strategize in any and all situations

come across as intense, which can intimidate timid souls but energizes likeminded ones

hell is sitting still

pile up the achievements, one of which may be a trophy spouse (or golddigger if they're not careful)

feel caged in by structure imposed by anyone other than themselves and will work ceaselessly to rearrange things to their own liking


Disclaimer:

These evaluations are based on limited interactions/observations with individuals whose types I don't have the ability to verify through testing. Also, I've known more suspected ESTPs than ENTJs.

 

[htb]

It's a quibble, but Solo strikes as an ISTP -- moving from here to there quietly, using tools -- whereas an ESTP like, say, Lando Calrissian uses people in between grand entrances and exits. Of course, now we're talking about Star Wars.

A useful contrast is that of Franklin Roosevelt and Douglas MacArthur: the former engaging through a calculated show of warmth and nobility, rhetorical only when purposeful, constructing a possibly inconsistent legacy from a series of short-term victories, thus a classic ESTP; the latter bombastic, ever grand and serious, haughty to the point of determinism about his own greatness, the archetypical ENTJ.

 

[Totenkindly]

I don't think that Darth Vader as portrayed in the first three released movies matches with the personality of Anakin Skywalker as portrayed in the prequels.

In the prequels, he was played as a "think inside the box" brooding ISTJ type ... very precocious when it came to mechanics and concrete processes, but not really using true N-style thinking in his decision-making.

It is hard to tell why this occurred -- purposefully, or simply how the actor portrayed him, or Lucas' own scripting/directing mistakes?

The Han Solo discussion is interesting. The conventional reading might be ESTP, but htb's support for ISTP makes sense. He's definitely very charming and sociable, but I understand why ISTP comes to mind.

I suppose the large question is function order:

ESTP = Se + Ti + Fe + Ni
ISTP = Ti + Se + Ni + Fe

Which pattern makes more sense?

[I agree with the Roosevelt/MacArthur comparison, although my knowledge of the latter is thin.]

 

[FDG]

Both are quick-thinking, take-charge types who are direct with their words.


ESTPs [Han Solo]:

casual in dress (e.g., tie askew if they must wear a suit) and manner (hearty handshake/laughter)

earthy, especially in the humor department, and charming in a rough diamond kind of way

say what they think as they think it, and may stick their foot in their mouth at inopportune times (and possibly even try to talk with said foot still there)

competitiveness tends to be balanced by playfulness and may be expressed through roughhousing

can appear deceptively laidback unless enthused by an activity, and then may seem frenetic to an introverted type such as myself

divorce--and remarriage--seems to be fairly common among this type

feel caged in by too much structure and get restless, fidgety


ENTJs [Darth Vader]:

sharp-dressed (e.g., the tie will not be askew--it wouldn't dare!) and forceful in manner (they don't walk, they stride)

usually direct in speech but can sound convoluted if they're working through a concept or plan right as the words spill out (with an accompanying dreamy/deranged expression which becomes more fanatical as their thoughts solidify)

cerebral, spending more time in their minds than ES types, due to tendency to strategize in any and all situations

come across as intense, which can intimidate timid souls but energizes likeminded ones

hell is sitting still

pile up the achievements, one of which may be a trophy spouse (or golddigger if they're not careful)

feel caged in by structure imposed by anyone other than themselves and will work ceaselessly to rearrange things to their own liking


Disclaimer:

These evaluations are based on limited interactions/observations with individuals whose types I don't have the ability to verify through testing. Also, I've known more suspected ESTPs than ENTJs.

Well....

I like dancing, and studying, and battle of wits. I also like to mentor other people towards a given goal as it's listed in ENTJs description. I'm also very competitive with my grades and all that. However I don't like preppy women - like better girls that are low-key and don't wear any make-up. I also like a lot to draw and play sports, as well as mountain climbing, and languages. I'm competitive in my work and like to do better than my coworkers, but I'm not interested in being in charge. I just want to play. I am extremely fond of sexual jokes I touch my balls in public without really noticing what I'm doing, too.

I think ESTP's are very practical people. They can deal with most any situation and live by their wits. However, they aren't particularly good at planning or being decisive until the moment's upon them.

ENTJ's are very driven to control situations for the best results due to their Te. They are able to use their Ni to see how things could unfold, and prepare for several eventualities.

Well! I can do both!

No, you make a good point, by this token I'd clearly be ENTJ.

 

[The Ü™]

In the prequels, he was played as a "think inside the box" brooding ISTJ type ... very precocious when it came to mechanics and concrete processes, but not really using true N-style thinking in his decision-making.

Anakin in the prequels was very ENFP -- it's quite evident. He's good at inventing and also rebellious against convention for the sole sake of rebelling (both Ne traits). And needless to say, Anakin was very intuitive. He also decides based on desires (an Fi trait).

 

[Blackwater]

I take Darth Vader to be an ISTJ through all six movies. He's an archetypical Dark Knight after all.

 

[Recluse]

FDG,

Go here and take the test:
MyPersonality.info - Personality Types and Multiple Intelligences Tests & Information

It's not the best version but will give you a cute little badge that you can put in your signature. I'd like to see how your type breaks down, percentagewise.

You seem more playful and lighthearted than the typical J and your S seems fairly well developed. Never expected to encounter an ENTJ who doesn't want to be in charge(!), just wants to play (maybe it's your youth), and cracks sex jokes (ENTJs generally aren't a barrel of monkeys). Maybe an ENTP with a fairly weak preference for N? Probably I shouldn't be speculating, but it is fun.


On the topic of Star Wars characters, I would say that Boba Fett is the consummate ISTP, with his love of gadgets, action approach to situations, impersonal dealings with all but his "son"/clone, and utter calm under pressure. Think Clint Eastwood in a jet pack. Well, okay, with a Mini-Me clone.

 

[htb]

On the topic of Star Wars characters, I would say that Boba Fett is the consummate ISTP, with his love of gadgets, action approach to situations, impersonal dealings with all but his "son"/clone, and utter calm under pressure.

ISTPs thrive on improvisation, be it the tactical use of objects in the vicinity or the motto "I'm making this up as I go along." Fett was too long a thinker, too precise a tinkerer, to be an ISTP -- the INTP, however, might fit him.

Besides, the bounty hunter's shriek, as Fett tumbled into the Sarlacc's maw, was plainly an outburst of extroverted feeling. No, really.

 

[The Ü™]

Interesting, I would think the "precision" associated with INTP is really more an ISTP trait. Precision is a detail-oriented task which marries Ti and Se. The INTP, who is backed up with Ne, would have less concern with precision and more concern for innovating.

The ISTP is a precise tinkerer, where the INTP is the precise innovator.

Boba Fett is indeed an ISTP.

Improvisation is something an ESxP would be better at. The ISTP thinks first before improvising.

 

[Recluse]

Are you saying I'd make a good Boba Fett-style bounty hunter, htb? I'll give that some thought. (Or are you just pulling the tiger's tail?)

I have to say I do have a "hunter" character in one of my science fiction stories, but I wrote him as an ISTP. If he were a curious but absent-minded INTP, I'm afraid he'd end up being more of a danger to himself than to others. He'd enjoy the idea of the chase but would most likely want to devise a way to conduct it from the seclusion of his base of operations: A flying, remote-control killer robot? Actually, that's not a bad idea.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

FDG, you seem like an ESTP to me based on your posts. That's just my two cents.

 

[htb]

Are you saying I'd make a good Boba Fett-style bounty hunter, htb? I'll give that some thought. (Or are you just pulling the tiger's tail?)

Let's just say that in spite of Uber's interesting counterpoints, I find INTPs to be "ingenuously surreptitious."

 

[Recluse]

htb,

"ingenuously surreptitious"--Is that not an oxymoron? Or should I assume that you meant "ingeniously surreptitious?" (Don't want to put words in your mouth.)

So, you think INTPs are sneaky snakes, huh? Well then, you'd better keep out of the grass.

 

[Economica]

FDG, I don't have a strong opinion about your type, but here's three points for ESTP in my view:

- Post #12 in this thread. I see an ESTP as much more likely than an ENTJ both to 1) successfully induce a bitter ex-couple to become friends or 2) take credit for having done so even if not quite accurate.

- Post #21 in the same thread. The ENTJs I know take into account what is not explicitly said whereas I've seen ESTPs present obvious (and hence, if unmentioned, implicitly inapplicable) solutions apparently with complete faith that they were being novel and helpful.

- You think the ISFJ is your best match. I can see a male ENTJ/female ISFJ match working out nicely with regard to traditional gender roles but I don't see either being romantically fulfilled in such a match. ESTP/ISFJ on the other hand...

 

[htb]

Is that not an oxymoron?

It is, care of a typo, but pretty amusing nonetheless.

 

[FDG]

FDG,

Go here and take the test:
MyPersonality.info - Personality Types and Multiple Intelligences Tests & Information

Nice!

 

[Economica]

(ENTJ result)

Bayes' theorem does imply that the claim of ESTP would require extraordinary evidence.

I'll chalk your "make 'em be friends" advice up to ENTJ patronization then.

 

[Matt22]

ENTJs [Darth Vader]:

sharp-dressed (e.g., the tie will not be askew--it wouldn't dare!)

No. My dad is the poster child for ENTJ, and he dresses casually all the time unless the situation calls for formallity. He looks sharp, but not because of his clothes.