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  1. #1
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Default SJ? Either way DON'T DO IT!!

    Okay I've now been to two weddings in three weeks and again I am amazed at the proliferation of non thought that is present in people as a whole. Something within society obviously requires a framework for them to live to. I'm not sure why they think that such a framework is required in such bright neon colours, nor why everyone should follow such frameworks.

    Anyhow the crux of my concern has been around the phrase "cause I said so". Within these weddings there seems to be an unending sprawl of "cause you do" going on. Those that know me know I'm looking into my own wedding at the moment and I'm starting to feel like going postal at some of these events!!!

    Where do people get the whole tradition thing from? They don't know why they do it, what it means, who started it, or anything. So the question remains "Why do they do it?????".

    Answers on a postcard to...
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #2
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    i think they follow it because they like it and prefer it.

  3. #3
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I think traditions and formalities make people feel secure. Maybe it implies that the future is stable if they consider the past as stable. As children we accept much at face value from our caretakers. Maybe it's also related to a fear of the unknown? Traditions make more things 'known' in one viewpoint.

    I personally don't care for tradition and formality. My own wedding was embarrassing, pressuring, intrusive, and on display. The wedding kiss was a horrible moment to 'perform' something like that. We just had a small little peck to get it over with and everyone laughed. I did like the dress, though. Funerals also make me feel like i never really knew the person, as they are reinterpreted in such formal terms. If most are comforted by these formalities, then have at it i suppose.

    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #4
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  5. #5
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Fe
    Si=tradition

    Si-Fe
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #6
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Anyhow the crux of my concern has been around the phrase "cause I said so". Within these weddings there seems to be an unending sprawl of "cause you do" going on. Those that know me know I'm looking into my own wedding at the moment and I'm starting to feel like going postal at some of these events!!! Where do people get the whole tradition thing from? They don't know why they do it, what it means, who started it, or anything. So the question remains "Why do they do it?????".
    Everyone gets over it in time (hopefully).

    Those who you now see as purely peon in terms of following a tradition because it exists will eventually start to attach personal emotional significance to it and use it consciously as a way to experience their concern for others.

    Those like you will either remove yourself from the situation entirely because it's driving you fruit-batty or you will learn to take it for what it is and use it as a tool to show consideration in an easily understood form.

    Not everyone warrants personal investment and emotional drain upon yourself; you will end up using some social rituals so that you can show consideration to those you are less connected with, without having to really pay attention to what you are doing.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #7
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Si=tradition

    Si-Fe
    Fair enough, although Ni-Fe will look very much the same if they like the social tradition (and then they'll change/ignore the social traditions that they don't like).
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  8. #8
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    I understand that the honeymoon dates back to the days of wife-stealing, when young bucks would steal a bride from another clan/tribe (in the interests of genetic diversity) and then hide out from the young lady's male relatives until such time as the new bride was thoroughly deflowered and hopefully pregnant. After that the bride's family would be forced to accept the marriage as a fait-accompli, and would thus be more willing to talk dowries instead of bloody reprisals. The groomsmen (best man & co) represented those men who would aid the groom in his kidnapping.

    It's all a bit debatable, but I am nonetheless in favour of tradition in the major ceremonies which remain to us because I've found that there usually are reasons for why things are done the way they are, even if that reason is outdated and mostly forgotten. Still, it's nice to think that we do still have some kind of link with ancestors we have no real way of identifying today. And some of those links are so refreshingly heathen.

  9. #9
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shum View Post
    i think they follow it because they like it and prefer it.
    Now if they actually said that then I'd kinda understand. Non rationalised wants and likes are cool but why oh why do people get this urge to get others to comply to something that they themselves don't even understand? It's mind boggling!!
    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I think traditions and formalities make people feel secure. Maybe it implies that the future is stable if they consider the past as stable. As children we accept much at face value from our caretakers. Maybe it's also related to a fear of the unknown? Traditions make more things 'known' in one viewpoint.
    That's what I was thinking

    I always get called a party pooper though if I point it out :rolli:
    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I personally don't care for tradition and formality. My own wedding was embarrassing, pressuring, intrusive, and on display. The wedding kiss was a horrible moment to 'perform' something like that. We just had a small little peck to get it over with and everyone laughed. I did like the dress, though. Funerals also make me feel like i never really knew the person, as they are reinterpreted in such formal terms. If most are comforted by these formalities, then have at it i suppose.

    OMG!!!

    Okay wedding planning. Don't want that.

    Still trying to research a place which would kinda loan about a dozen dogs (who all got along of course). Now that should get people's minds off the formalities

    Would also make for some nice photos. I could hide behind the dogs
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Everyone gets over it in time (hopefully).
    You mean I get over feeling like slapping them or they get over following it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Those who you now see as purely peon
    HEY!! I object.
    Okay it's true but I'm still objecting.

    Okay now carry on..
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    in terms of following a tradition because it exists will eventually start to attach personal emotional significance to it and use it consciously as a way to experience their concern for others.
    That's the alien bit. Can't quite follow that manoeuvre.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Those like you will either remove yourself from the situation entirely because it's driving you fruit-batty or you will learn to take it for what it is and use it as a tool to show consideration in an easily understood form.
    But damn it I should be designing the forms!! Definer!!!

    I do see the point. When trying to express precisely and uniquely most do just shrug and go "huh?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Not everyone warrants personal investment and emotional drain upon yourself; you will end up using some social rituals so that you can show consideration to those you are less connected with, without having to really pay attention to what you are doing.
    True and that is what makes it all the more draining and irritating. You try and do something innovative and filled with forethought and care, all you get is queried as to why you didn't perform as per article 17 subsection B3 of the civilians handbook otherwise known as "How to make friends and influence people".

    I swear that somedays though it's like everyone hired an "idiots guide to..." or one of those SAMS "teach yourself in 10 days" and is following it step by step.

    Perhaps it's just over here but it seems like the term "guidline" over here means little less than rule and all those social niceties and rituals are considered guidelines.

    Anyhow I think I have a plan for my own wedding. Full plate and a nice sword (all romantic and stuff) then if anyone asks me to dance (aside from she who must be considered) or stand infront of too many photos, get's it
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #10
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Well, some people don't get married in a formal ceremony, occasionally they just get married by a sheriff or something (or don't even marry at all), and that's happened for many years. Some people just don't go in for pomp and ceremony.

    Out of the people who do have formal weddings, it's probably to make some kind of symbolic statement about their commitment to the other person. It's probably also a chance to share with their families the point in time at which their life moves into a different stage. It used to be a much bigger deal, especially for women, because divorce was rare, and it was the time when they moved out of their father's house, and towards becoming mothers. It just carried over from the past, because people seem to need to feel a sense of direction and continuity via traditional symbols, because those symbols give them a way of expressing the enormity of their hopes and seriousness about the event.

    The ceremony doesn't make sense, but that's because it was carried over from religious traditions, which were filled with inane, ornate rituals. People engage in rituals to feel a sense of connection to something bigger than they are, I guess. It doesn't always really achieve or mean that, and it just becomes so ingrained in culture that it's continued just as an identity thing or for predictability. These rituals are probably particularly annoying to people who don't need such glaring symbols to understand connections and feelings.

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