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  1. #1
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Default Who and what limits your "type strength"?

    I've always been suspicious about the ENTJ strength, leadership and such. There are many ways how it is practically limited, although I can see it there.

    So I'll share what limits my "type abilities", and I'm glad they do.

    First of all: many people in the circles I belong to have a much more established career or presence in there, due to long work in the area, making me a no contender at all for the "leadership" title. I'm thinking of FJ while I wrote this. I'm thinking of some volunteer work groups I belong to.

    Then there's some deep academic groups. Okay, my intellect and know-how can be notable outside some of those groups; but, I haven't gone far enough, deep enough in there, so I can't be an intellectual leader in such areas.

    Just to give an idea where I excel at, well, I guess that's kind of underground work. Work under some system, opposed or independent of that system. I guess I'm an opinion leader in my social settings, working in the opposite, and at other times, working in the mainstream.

    Social leader? No. Many people are more usual, everyday people who really feel much more about everyone, and they're more practically involved with everything. They know the fun places, people, etc.. I'm not a leader of the most fun people, socially, but perhaps a good name with the wise people in my social groups. A leader perhaps, but not The leader.

    So in short, I find my ENTJ-powers quite limited. My leadership is limited to being an opinion leader with my social groups, and even not The leader.

    So, what's your story? Name your "type power" and do you have it or not, and how it works for you.

    Most of all, what limits you from exercising that power?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #2
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Side comments about leadership
    Leadership doesn't need to be so strictly defined as the "figurehead" of the group. It can be defined subtly as somebody that knows how to make the team work well together. You don't need to be in the overt leadership position to do that. The advisor or the subtle influencer does just as good a job. Of course, those roles don't come with the concrete ego boost you get from being the official leader.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  3. #3
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    ENTJ's may not know they have the force they have. When you're around them, they "feel" in charge to you.

  4. #4
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Side comments about leadership
    Leadership doesn't need to be so strictly defined as the "figurehead" of the group. It can be defined subtly as somebody that knows how to make the team work well together. You don't need to be in the overt leadership position to do that. The advisor or the subtle influencer does just as good a job. Of course, those roles don't come with the concrete ego boost you get from being the official leader.
    No they don't

    I guess the type representations are made to give an idea of the type, and I can see why ENTJ might be called the fieldmarshal, but I just see how they can't be the fieldmarshal in everything they choose to be. Just saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by maliafee View Post
    ENTJ's may not know they have the force they have. When you're around them, they "feel" in charge to you.
    I guess I might do some of that, but I'm just feeling I'm being treated fairly in return. That's all. Not like anyone's submitting to my authority or anything Okay, someone, to be honest. But I tell them to be more independent and to stand up for themselves.

    What do you feel your type excels at?

    Do you feel like living to your maximum potential in that, and if not, what and where are your limits?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #5
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    I've always been suspicious about the ENTJ strength, leadership and such. There are many ways how it is practically limited, although I can see it there.

    So I'll share what limits my "type abilities", and I'm glad they do.

    First of all: many people in the circles I belong to have a much more established career or presence in there, due to long work in the area, making me a no contender at all for the "leadership" title. I'm thinking of FJ while I wrote this. I'm thinking of some volunteer work groups I belong to.

    Then there's some deep academic groups. Okay, my intellect and know-how can be notable outside some of those groups; but, I haven't gone far enough, deep enough in there, so I can't be an intellectual leader in such areas.

    Just to give an idea where I excel at, well, I guess that's kind of underground work. Work under some system, opposed or independent of that system. I guess I'm an opinion leader in my social settings, working in the opposite, and at other times, working in the mainstream.

    Social leader? No. Many people are more usual, everyday people who really feel much more about everyone, and they're more practically involved with everything. They know the fun places, people, etc.. I'm not a leader of the most fun people, socially, but perhaps a good name with the wise people in my social groups. A leader perhaps, but not The leader.

    So in short, I find my ENTJ-powers quite limited. My leadership is limited to being an opinion leader with my social groups, and even not The leader.

    So, what's your story? Name your "type power" and do you have it or not, and how it works for you.

    Most of all, what limits you from exercising that power?
    I 110% agree with you. I think the ENTJ type was a big leader ship type back in the day of the corporate cliche, the honor of being a military man, ie patriarchail society.

    Women are supposed to run society from a biological perspective seeing as they are the choosier sex. Most likely their was a food shortage, that created a chimp like society where the men ran shit because there wasnt enough food for women to band together --years of sexual selection-->the patriarchail society we've had for a long time --suddenly stuff is plentiful--> now we are entering the bonobo phase, where women run shit.

    basically, the ENTJ is no longer needed to run shit. In fact, i think its more that people dont even want the ENTJ in charge. In the matriarch, the XXFJs run shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by maliafee View Post
    ENTJ's may not know they have the force they have. When you're around them, they "feel" in charge to you.
    exactly goes with my point about people dont even want ENTJs to run shit, even if they are highly capable. It used to be aggressive pusuit of goals, intensity and getting shit done made you capable, now it makes you "too scary".

  6. #6
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    basically, the ENTJ is no longer needed to run shit. In fact, i think its more that people dont even want the ENTJ in charge. In the matriarch, the XXFJs run shit.

    exactly goes with my point about people dont even want ENTJs to run shit, even if they are highly capable. It used to be aggressive pusuit of goals, intensity and getting shit done made you capable, now it makes you "too scary".
    That pretty much sums it up. The production levels in this society are high enough already, with most of the serious issues being about style, manner and other issues of opinion, rather than something being measured objectively. The wonders of the modern science have already done most of their things, as have the increased production levels. The big issue of today is, who's benefiting from it? That's the question that few dared to ask before the financial crisis. People are backing up their ideas of the making and distribution of wealth by humanistic considerations.

    People are mostly fighting about whom shall have the right for what, how should some people's interest be presented, etc.. it's more of an area for value leading. The message of humanism appeals, it draws people.. it paves the way for emergent leadership, or that of the charismatic.

    The law, as well as the formal structures, manage to govern the smaller issues, like physically stealing from the bank. Insuring your car. The larger, as in, is it good to make the Chinese work grossly overtime per low payment and neglect of local law, if the blame can be denied, now that's a matter of value judgement - and it's not being governed nearly as strictly. The bad word about it spreads fast, though. Everyone has an idea of it. Still, it might be that no-one can put a strict judgment of that into effect. One will get protested about that, disliked, and such. So.

    Stories of corporate unfairness move consumers faster than a dozen marketing campaigns. Stories of practical things.. are they moving people? Yeah, but they've moved for an eternity already, and they are doing it all the time. Practical information, history, science, etc is available to us in an unprecedented manner. Libraries, internet.. you name it. But, it's found a saturation point from people unable to use it, uncaring about it, or with other issues. Besides, with everyone-for-themselves-mentality, there are few undiscovered truths that haven't been handled already, or ones that aren't being lied about. So I guess people are seeing hope in humanism right now. I guess it ebbs and flows in historical time periods, perhaps longer than a generation. Perhaps longer than a lifetime.

    So I'd say T can and will put their power into effect in this world more effectively, on average, whereas F will get more popular support. Or, it depends.

    F is not just feel-good, do-good, tho I just covered that aspect now; it's good that T and F forces balance each other in the power struggle of men and women.

    Now who made me write this long? Babylon, you're a devil for inspiring my imagination so
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    This entire society is bad for my type.

  8. #8
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Why would that be? ^
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #9
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    There is always the possibility of instant gratification. Anything we want. Drugs, alcohol, sex, parties. Its a really good setup to put your average sfp in a fast downward spiral. Theres little room for growth when we have all of this temptation going on around us. Its difficult to move forward with so many distr-

    hey! look! fireworks!

  10. #10
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    hmm Limits and strengths of an eNTP.

    Strengths are the easy bit. We can improvise amazingly and can meet a lot of "useful people" as i think we have a way of attracting interesting people and interesting people are often useful people.

    Weaknesses. When i think about it loads. eNTP are never going to fit in society because we just don't want to. Yet society has this thing were they think it would be great if we would calm down a bit and fit in and just use our wackiness when its useful; but it just doesn't work that way because if you contain your Ne you start going INTP and then its harder to pull out when society needs it.
    Our limit is clearly our inability to get on with things and actual set a goal and stick with it. The dreams that make our minds so useful also cloud them so they are often useless.

    I think society is getting better for eNTPs though as we are generally becoming more open and accepting and more trusting of ideas! then again with PC on the unrise maybe its not getting better!

    Maybe all that was a load of shit i don't know i'm just saying what i think!
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

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