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  1. #11
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    You are right, NPs rule indeed more than its good for others. The thing is though, it takes an open mind to find that truth out and now that you have, why do you think NJs cant be good rulers aswell ?
    Oh, NJs are rulers whether they like it or not too. Hung around with an ENTJ long enough to know this.

    But... I'm mister Chart-the-Course, supposedly paired by duality with NPs, ergo I'm figuring out what I'm supposed to tell you guys. (Works out great if you tell me first and then I tell you better.)

    Everyone influences other people in some way, it seems, and has some suitable responsibility to do it right, so what's suitably right? NJs have little choice but to lay down the law because that's how they speak and think. NPs...

  2. #12
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    NJ's are managers and maintainers. NP's rush in and get things going. So, they're like the vanguard whereas NJ's are the rear guard or walking with the rest of the troop.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #13
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Well I dont have much experience with INTJ, I until today managed to stay out of their ways.

    Maybe, NPs shall think about the thing and than stick to the decision and show the NJ that they love it ! If thats all, I can do that
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #14
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    ... NJ's are the rear guard or walking with the rest of the troop.
    Hmm, or the NJ planned the entire thing and are at the head of the column! (I'm thinking of Napoleon, ENTJ I believe. I'm sure there are workplace 'Napoleons'.) I guess every type will define leadership according to the way they lead though...

  5. #15
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    Hmm, or the NJ planned the entire thing and are at the head of the column! (I'm thinking of Napoleon, ENTJ I believe. I'm sure there are workplace 'Napoleons'.) I guess every type will define leadership according to the way they lead though...
    But that would bring us back to NP thinking, namely its not important who is the head as long as the head is a good head. (what has proven to be not changeable if you wait too long) -.-
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #16
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    NJ's are managers and maintainers. NP's rush in and get things going. So, they're like the vanguard whereas NJ's are the rear guard or walking with the rest of the troop.
    Yep, that's where you'll find the INTJs, hanging out with the guys or strolling along following everyone else.
    The NPs are in the vanguard so we're all off to Wendy's for milkshakes.
    It's waaaaay better than fast food, you know.


    The alt.view says NPs rush in and get things going, so they're like the vanguard. For a little bit. Then there's other stuff going on.

    But, then again, I do recall the suggestion that INTJs are impressionable. Maybe we are a lot more malleable than we think and you guys are leading us.


    To Wendy's?

  7. #17
    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
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    Yup, I agree with what's been said. I started a whole new division at my company within the last 2 years that's now nearly as big as a division that's been there for over 10 years. My boss & I talked and he took me out of the direct management of it because he wants me to keep doing things like starting new divisions etc. At least I think. Because he's a P, and us zany Ps like to change our direction now & then.

    Seriously though, we have a whole 'lotta P action going on at the very top of our management team, and it is indeed a wacky world to operate in. Trying to get a decision made? It's like that old say, "Management is like a bar of soap, the harder you grasp it the more quickly it slips through your fingers.

    I have seen the link posted on here somewhere about the tertiary temptation. It's really great material, and speaks to my INFP-ness more than anything I've read actually thus far. The suggestion for avoiding the tertiary temptation is the definition of how to succeed as an NP leader. I just can't remember what it is exactly. (I'll look it up later, too late at night now... Zzzz...)

    For me, I get ideas about possibilities so quickly that I analyze them inside my head before I verbalize them, then I analyze them while I verbalize them (I can't finish a sentence without saying, "Oh but then we have to take this over here into consideration and if we actually do that it's another 6 weeks but we'll get added functionality ahead of our top 3 competitors, but actually we could do that and then move on from there.") and then I analyze them while other people are probably trying to communicate back at me (I see their lips moving but I hear my internal analysis :p ) and then I continue to analyze possibilities after they're done responding and I've already judged the situation into a new set of possibilities that may match or negate what was previously discussed 5 seconds ago in this process.

    Due to this constant flow of possibilities, I do find it difficult to not do everything myself. When parts of the process flow are outsourced, I can't link up to possibilities. I would say possibilities are my greatest strength; the routine bores me to death and technically those things in the world that are routine are either 1. getting outsources overseas or 2. getting computerized so that work is basically going away as a valued entity. A computer is not so good at finding "possibilities," at least not "good" ones. (This is related to pattern recognition if I'm not mistaken.) My biggest crusade in the office is getting everyone from line staff to management to explore possibilities rather than taking a clock-puncher attitude toward work each day.

    I think my boss is an ESFP (he's an extroverted, sensing, feeling, perceiver - don't pay attention to me though I can't type people as I don't believe in having BOTH a 4-letter system AND functions - c'mon people CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! Or, I'll replace functions with "rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock." :p ) Ok, so I'll be Ne'ing him and he'll sit there and give me this eyes glazed-over look when I start negating my negation of a negation... in a single sentence.

    I find the toughest part of Ne and leadership is communication. Probably not helped by my Fi at all..
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeq5v7L3WM

  8. #18
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    EP = disruptive leadership

    EJ = anal retentive follow the rules and schedule leadership
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  9. #19
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speculative View Post
    I have seen the link posted on here somewhere about the tertiary temptation. It's really great material, and speaks to my INFP-ness more than anything I've read actually thus far. The suggestion for avoiding the tertiary temptation is the definition of how to succeed as an NP leader.
    Sounds meaty. It works because you stay true to yourself?

  10. #20
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Oi, i agree.

    I just about never use my tertiary at work (My tertiary explodes all over forums I'm on while I can be my NeTi leader self in real life.)

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