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  1. #31
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    T's detach, pure and simple. There is more detachment with the INTP than the INFP when it comes to personally volatile areas.

    To whit:
    The INTP will attempt to step back from the self to get clarity.
    The INFP will become more immersed in the self to get clarity.

    That is the instinct.
    It just happens.

    So INTPs can introspect deeply on a personal level, but they treat the self as an object to be analyzed, even the emotions must be analyzed in order to be understood; if the INTP merges with the feelings, the sense of clarity (identity through external perception) is lost. The INFP instead identifies with the emotions, even when they try to pull back; they can't "detach" like that or keep things separate, it feels like amputation.

    And yes, I see older INFPs develop their Te in order to "work the issues" in order to reduce anxiety. Meanwhile, older INTPs have learned their place in the group and how to interact with others enough (Fe) to get the resources they need or reduce tension as well. There is overlap there, people develop all their functions based on personal pref as well as environmental needs, but that's the general pattern. INFPs need to reduce their "practical" tension, they already a social/connecting function (Fi), they have to be able to "work issues"; INTPs already have a great strategic sense they use to deal with practical problems, their issue is the lack of a socialization tool (Ti usually just pisses off or alienates people if used exclusively), so they develop more Fe.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #32
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azseroffs View Post
    How can you tell the difference between an INTP and an INFP that highly values logical and objective thinking?

    ..I'm in one of those moods where I question my type again
    I see the biggest difference in the expression of the inferior function, Fe for INTPs and Te for INFPs. INTPs tend to be weirdos with merely a strictly minimal sense of social grace. INFPs are terrible at getting things done in an "official" sense; for instance, an INFP I teach just can't get his act together with things like turning in and making up work, even though he is a fairly smart kid with a mother who rapes him in the ass if he fucks up. I'll tell him he needs to do something, like make up a test, he'll "yes" me, but it will never happen.

    Same with my INFP roommate from college. He'd often "yes" people to make them go away. We'd all be going out on a Friday night, and we'd practically beg him to come, and he'd always just say "ok, I'll catch up with you guys in 20 minutes" and then just never show up. Most of the time, INTPs would keep a deal like that, or just not make it in the first place.

    The difference between Ti and Fi is also quite apparent. Fi folks are big into expression of their emotions, and often like to write poetry or music or something of the sort. INFPs are also always nice to people both to their face and behind their back. INTPs are gossip queens by any means, but they have no problem talking shit about someone if it's on their mind.

  3. #33
    Member Sponge's Avatar
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    I worked out that I was more NF than NT because my mood dictates everything. I can't even function if I'm in a bad mood. I need to be in the right 'mood' in order to do, well, anything.

    I know that, logically, I should spend my holidays catching up on work, but if I'm not in the mood to do it, then logic goes out of the window, for example.
    Yes, I would like some sponge cake.

  4. #34
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponge View Post
    I worked out that I was more NF than NT because my mood dictates everything. I can't even function if I'm in a bad mood. I need to be in the right 'mood' in order to do, well, anything.

    I know that, logically, I should spend my holidays catching up on work, but if I'm not in the mood to do it, then logic goes out of the window, for example.
    If this is true, then I must be NF, because it's very hard to bring myself to do work if I'm not in the mood to do it. I rarely every get work done over holidays...I usually end up spending them pursuing something entirely different, which refreshes me.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #35
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponge View Post
    I worked out that I was more NF than NT because my mood dictates everything. I can't even function if I'm in a bad mood. I need to be in the right 'mood' in order to do, well, anything.

    I know that, logically, I should spend my holidays catching up on work, but if I'm not in the mood to do it, then logic goes out of the window, for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    If this is true, then I must be NF, because it's very hard to bring myself to do work if I'm not in the mood to do it. I rarely every get work done over holidays...I usually end up spending them pursuing something entirely different, which refreshes me.
    I find this is more of a P thing.



  6. #36
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    I use a lot of cognitive behavioral stuff when i realize I'm not being objective enough. I used to feel completely helpless if i was feeling crappy, and allow myself to.

  7. #37
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Too lazy to write again, so I will copy and paste from INTPC.

    Unlike ISTP and ISTJ, I would think it harder to discern the difference between INPs and INJs since their cognitive functions are close, but mostly because the latter comparisons share the same interaction styles. INTP and INFP both have the Behind the Scenes interaction style that has a
    theme of getting the best result possible. People of this style focus on understanding and working with the process to create a positive outcome. They see value in many contributions and consult outside inputs to make an informed decision. They aim to integrate various information sources and accommodate differing points of view. They approach others with a quiet, calm style that may not show their strong convictions. Producing, sustaining, defining, and clarifying are all ways they support a group's process. They typically have more patience than most with the time it takes to gain support through consensus for a project or to refine the result.
    Ti and Fi can also be confusing since I still question the difference in ruling values and ruling principles and some other terms thrown around distinguishing the two functions. Jung says of the two functions:
    Both the foregoing types are rational, since they are founded upon reasoning, judging functions. Reasoning [p. 496] judgment is based not merely upon objective, but also upon subjective, data.
    Jung does give some tale-tell signs in distinguishing the two. For Ti he says
    This negative relation to the object-indifference, and even aversion-characterizes every introvert; it also makes a description of the introverted type in general extremely difficult. With him, everything tends to disappear and get concealed. His judgment appears cold, obstinate, arbitrary, and inconsiderate, simply because he is related less to the object than the subject. One can feel nothing in it that might possibly confer a higher value upon the object; it always seems to go beyond the object, leaving behind it a flavour of a certain subjective superiority. Courtesy, amiability, and friendliness may be present, but often with a particular quality suggesting a certain uneasiness, which betrays an ulterior aim, namely, the disarming of an opponent, who must at all costs be pacified and set at ease lest he prove a disturbing- element.
    For Fi Jung says
    The proverb 'Still waters run deep' is very true of such a type. They are mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and not infrequently their temperament is melancholic. They neither shine nor reveal themselves. Since they submit the control of their lives to their subjectively orientated feeling, their true motives generally remain concealed. Their outward demeanour is harmonious and inconspicuous; they reveal a delightful repose, a sympathetic parallelism, which has no desire to affect others, either to impress, influence, or change them in any way. Should this outer side be somewhat emphasized, a suspicion of neglectfulness and coldness may easily obtrude itself, which not seldom increases to a real indifference for the comfort and well-being of others. One distinctly feels the movement of feeling away from the object.

  8. #38
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    T's detach, pure and simple. There is more detachment with the INTP than the INFP when it comes to personally volatile areas.

    To whit:
    The INTP will attempt to step back from the self to get clarity.
    The INFP will become more immersed in the self to get clarity.


    That is the instinct.
    It just happens.

    So INTPs can introspect deeply on a personal level, but they treat the self as an object to be analyzed, even the emotions must be analyzed in order to be understood; if the INTP merges with the feelings, the sense of clarity (identity through external perception) is lost. The INFP instead identifies with the emotions, even when they try to pull back; they can't "detach" like that or keep things separate, it feels like amputation.
    I think that's a really good way of explaining the difference, except I would put a more "positive" spin on Fi . Sometimes T types describe it as if our feeling is just these emotions we have no control over. I think that's the issue with people mistyping themselves as INTP when they are INFP....we don't feel led along by an irrational feeling. Our feelings are so clear and fine-tuned that they offer insight that is quite logical to others. Feeling does not always equal emotion (one definition of feeling = "the general state of consciousness considered independently of particular sensations, thoughts, etc..". It's a "knowing" rather than a specific emotion such as sadness). This is why we make great therapists (which requires being both objective and empathetic), and we can do well in science and math as long as it has some greater significance to us (and is not just numbers and logic for the sake of numbers & logic).

    Regarding Fi:
    "Whether they are artists or scientists, they are still primarily attracted by problems of the emotional life. They express themselves in such occupations with great care and precision."
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  9. #39
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think that's a really good way of explaining the difference, except I would put a more "positive" spin on Fi . Sometimes T types describe it as if our feeling is just these emotions we have no control over. I think that's the issue with people mistyping themselves as INTP when they are INFP....we don't feel led along by an irrational feeling. Our feelings are so clear and fine-tuned that they offer insight that is quite logical to others. Feeling does not always equal emotion (one definition of feeling = "the general state of consciousness considered independently of particular sensations, thoughts, etc..". It's a "knowing" rather than a specific emotion such as sadness). This is why we make great therapists (which requires being both objective and empathetic), and we can do well in science and math as long as it has some greater significance to us (and is not just numbers and logic for the sake of numbers & logic).

    Regarding Fi:
    "Whether they are artists or scientists, they are still primarily attracted by problems of the emotional life. They express themselves in such occupations with great care and precision."
    This just seems so non-specific. This is basically saying that INFPs will be good at whatever it is that they value, even if what they value is something like math or science. So is this to say that other types will pursue "with great care and precision" things that they don't value?

    Edit: I'm talking about the latter part of the post...I didn't bother editing out the parts of the quote that I wasn't talking about.

    Edit Edit: Actually, that was a kneejerk post. My frustration with such descriptions isn't the bit about pursuing what they care about...it's just the lack of specificity regarding "the emotional life." What sorts of things are problems of the emotional life? As a physicist, for instance, what would differentiate the INFPs motivation (or aim towards "the emotional life") from that of other types? Because it sounds like it's primarily a difference in motivation.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #40
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    This just seems so non-specific. This is basically saying that INFPs will be good at whatever it is that they value, even if what they value is something like math or science. So is this to say that other types will pursue "with great care and precision" things that they don't value?
    i disagree. they just pay attention to a different stream of information/analysis. it is based on subjective experiences but it becomes very fine-tuned and capable of dealing with complex situations. it understands relationships in the social domain in terms of human-centric values, whereas thinking is more detached and uses other conceptual tools to find/discover/employ judgments in abstractly symbolized forms of representation.

    they just use different analytical tools, and EVERY type MUST use both thinking and feeling to some degree. thinking is one side of analysis, pure cognitive technology, whereas feeling helps analyze one's own position with-in the world. it is a way of finding place, understanding and managing and navigating and exploring social relationships and their respective meanings, etc, by paying attention to the physical responses and shifts in internal state.

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