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  1. #121
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Believe you me, I was/am very aware of my audience. This is a topic that I've thought about frequently in the past, especially as a lurker at INTPc and I noticed the contempt towards Fe. I know the primary audience is not one that is willing to believe that Fe is not an evil function seeking to destroy individuality and souls because all it's concerned about is appearances and conformity. It's not like I haven't been the recipient of immature Fe, so I know it happens. The responses have actually been a lot tamer than what I anticipated so I guess that's a good thing.
    IMO most negative views of Fe both here and on INTPc are derived from bad experiences with SFJs endured by NTs and NFPs. I've never had problems from NFJs, however.
    Autistic INFP


  2. #122
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    That sounds reasonable and right, but Fe is supposed to be my second function and the descriptions here don't fit. Fi sound much more familiar in your context. So much so that i have completely restructured my professional life to insure that i can interact with people one on one. That is a huge driving force in my life. I do think i am an INFJ, but i grew up with an INFP. These are some contrasts i notice:

    1. Empathy: Fi empathy is very focused, intense and personal. It tends to single out certain individuals and lavish this understanding on them. This selective empathy is constant, never ending. Limited personal resources results in focus on the few. Fe empathy is more diffuse, equally distributed amongst people regardless of their reactions. It could be compared to the distinction between a panic attack (Fi) and generalized anxiety(Fe), only applied to the concept of empathy instead of anxiety. When Fe resources are low, the entire switch flips off and feeling is placed on hold until the inner self is filled up.

    2. Projection vs. Internalizing: When encountering a person the Fi sense of their inner world and feelings is so clear and intense, that the only error Fi is apt to make is to project their own innocence and passion onto the external person. Fe inner world is in more flux emotionally and readily absorbs whatever emotions are in the environment. Fe error is to mistake the attributes of others as their own, while Fi is to mistake their own attributes as belonging to others.

    3. Emotional convention: Fi will respond to emotional contexts within the extensive framework they have create deep inside themselves. The concept of convention can be quite strong, but is in a profoundly personal context. This internal sense of convention can be broadly developed to include multiple scenarios, but will tend to all be linked to a single inner vision of how people ought to value emotional responses and communication. Fi strives to maintain this inner consistency and peace projecting it outward. Fe is more aware of external conventions and is willing to alter their own sense of expectation to fit the specific scenario. Their value lies in terms of maintaining external peace and consistency, but use a variety of means to achieve this goal. Their inner assumptions about how people will interact emotionally is not as well developed, and so they more readily accept various strategies based on the context.

    4. Connecting to others: Fi has the ability to draw people into their rich world of meaning and compassion. They are like a beacon, a lighthouse on the shore. There can be constancy, stability. When no one responds to this beacon, there is longing. Fe searches outwardly to connect to the other person on whatever terms are presented. They have a treasure map and are searching outwardly for the buried treasure. Fe hopes to find meaning and compassion by offering a reason to be let into the world of another person. When this does not occur the isolation aches. Edit: It's possible that Fe tends to be more self critical because it's measure of attaining an ideal is based on the external world which is in flux. It is pretty easy to feel a sense of failure since achieving peace in the external world is much more of a lost cause than that of the internal world, generally speaking. [/edit]

    Both are equally sincere. Both can hold the value of wanting the greatest peace, meaning, and benefit for all involved. Perhaps in their ugliest scenarios Fi will fall into blind narcissism, while Fe into hypocrisy and lies? Once again MBTI is not a determinant for morality. Forcing it to be disrupts the path to achieve understanding.

    (hello from wyoming folks )
    Wow, This post describes perfectly the behavior of my tertiary Fi recently after I found out a good friend of mine was raped. *shudder* I usually seem cold and even heartless until some personal, emotionally-charged event happens and all of a sudden I'm lavishing care and empathy on people in most of need of it.
    Autistic INFP


  3. #123
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    BlueWing has that special way of saying, "I've studied the matter thoroughly, and now I can authoritatively say that my type is the best."
    He's a good example of how unhealthy INTPs can tune out data that goes against the worldview created by Ti.
    Autistic INFP


  4. #124
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Why are people so distrustful of Fe? It is the one function that I see the most consistently criticized (along with Si) as being hypocritical, manipulative, self-righteous, and insincere. What about this function makes people think of it in those terms?

    Imagine what the world would be like without Fe. I think it would be a very unwelcoming place. If belonging (cue theme from "Cheers") is important to people then I think Fe is the mechanism through which this occurs. Is Fi able to do this just as well as Fe? Are people wary of Fi also or is this only reserved for Fe?
    some of my best friends and relatives are ESFJs. i really don't understand the crazy anti-Fe that goes on here. Im far more scared of Fi than i am of Fe due to what Bluewing said: no matter what reality throws at the Fi people, their axioms are slow to change.

    Fe people can be sometimes easily swayed by information supplied to them, but at least if its good info they will learn. Where as some Fi people i know, will refuse to even consider it.

    Fe/Si can definitely be heavily influenced by the environment, but i actaully find that less wobbly as people here state. An ISFJ that grows up with accountants for parents who push math real hard, can be likely to heavily embrace say computer science at a later age due to the environment they grew up in (someone i actaully know).

    I find that Fe is much closer to Judging than it is to Feeling.

  5. #125
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    I used to be terribly distrustful of Fe because I associated it with herd mentality, conformism, and all of that other lovely stuff. I now realize that Fe can be a great tool, and that many people use it well. I myself often use it to good effect, such as being friendly and courteous, and reaching out to other people (mainly online, since I'm too shy to use Fe in real life). It can also be useful for manipulating people, but that's not the thing to mention in a defense, is it?
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    some of my best friends and relatives are ESFJs. i really don't understand the crazy anti-Fe that goes on here. Im far more scared of Fi than i am of Fe due to what Bluewing said: no matter what reality throws at the Fi people, their axioms are slow to change.

    Fe people can be sometimes easily swayed by information supplied to them, but at least if its good info they will learn. Where as some Fi people i know, will refuse to even consider it.
    Fi itself is slow to change, yes. As well it should be! It manifests itself as the user's core value system. It's their DNA, the fundamental value-based axioms which create their perception and their behaviors.

    One doesn't have to change their DNA in order to change themselves or to take in new, beneficial information. Fi, being very, very fundamental influences one's behavior, certainly. However, if an Fi-user can certainly deem it necessary to change because their unchanging core value system tells them to change.

    As an example, suppose my mission statement--my unwavering core--is that I wish to become strong enough to help other people. Well, if I'm not currently self-sufficient, I'll have to become that way. If I can't read another person's needs, and if I can't keep altering my perception of them in the process, I certainly won't be able to help them. And if I stick to other people in trying to help them and forget about my own needs in the process, I'm not yet strong enough to help them effectively. These are all changes in one's mindset, routine, behaviors, and so on, that are a product of one's fundamental belief.

    The fact of the matter is that Fe and Fi are both judging functions. If one's judging function completely dominates their personality, they're not going to be very receptive to new information, no matter what that specific judging function they "use."

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Fe/Si can definitely be heavily influenced by the environment, but i actaully find that less wobbly as people here state. An ISFJ that grows up with accountants for parents who push math real hard, can be likely to heavily embrace say computer science at a later age due to the environment they grew up in (someone i actaully know).
    I'm pretty sure this is just human nature. Aren't we all likely to be influenced by our parents, especially in the career realm, and especially if they "push" as you've described?

  7. #127
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    I'm pretty sure this is just human nature. Aren't we all likely to be influenced by our parents, especially in the career realm, and especially if they "push" as you've described?
    well no shit sherlock . my point was that the ISFJ for instance might be MORE prone to it than say, my INTJ sister who refuses to be influenced by our parents ( haha)

  8. #128
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Personally, sometimes Fe drives me bonkers because they want you to conform. I get it, it's to keep the social norm and peace and it is necessary...but it drives me up the wall when they demand it solely on that base. As long as I'm not actually causing harm to anyone..plz allow me to do my own thing without judging me for it
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  9. #129
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    The one thing about Fe that bothers me is someone is so driven to be considerate of others that it's hard to discern when their actions are being driven by Fe or by an actual connection. That's what makes me weary of trusting FJs. I guess with a TJ, if they're even thinking of you emotionally, you've done something pretty damn noteworthy. I don't know if this has been said in the thread. I'll read through the 12 pages later.


  10. #130
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    The one thing about Fe that bothers me is someone is so driven to be considerate of others that it's hard to discern when their actions are being driven by Fe or by an actual connection. That's what makes me weary of trusting FJs. I guess with a TJ, if they're even thinking of you emotionally, you've done something pretty damn noteworthy. I don't know if this has been said in the thread. I'll read through the 12 pages later.
    I think that is just a difference of defining an actual connection. The Fe user will classify a certain relationship or encounter as an actual connection, while the Te/Ti user might not. What is real to them is not necessarily real to you. If a Te/Ti user is overtly attentive to the social needs of others, then I'd be slightly suspicious, but for Fe users I typically assume it is modus operandi.



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