User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 49

  1. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    type
    Enneagram
    5
    Socionics
    INFP
    Posts
    963

    Default

    Thanks for the smart compliment. This demands research.

  2. #32
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,755

    Default

    genetics has to do with the maniufacturing of proteins and the replication of cells. It has nothing to do with the mbti.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  3. #33
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    genetics has to do with the maniufacturing of proteins and the replication of cells. It has nothing to do with the mbti.
    genetics, in turn with signal transduction and hormonal signalling controls manufacturing of proteins and miRNAs in cells, whcih interact via further signal transduction pathways which control how, what and why cells do in response to external and internal stimuli, which influences how a cell-say a nueron transmits signals and interacts with surrounding cells.

    and say how a pile o' neurons transmit signals and work together which determines seems to determine cognitive functioning.

    from the genome to the transcriptome to the proteome and beyond... woo-hoo!

    as for genetics I have sort of watched this with mbti letters but never seen a clear correlation-pieces and parts seem to repeat but nothing clean, precise or statistical. definite tendancy for grandparent types to pop up again in kids which could just be random.. not paid any attention to functions though...

    Me: enfp (Ne-Fi) (mom enfp (Ne-Fi), dad likely infj (Ni-Fe) sister esfp (Se-Fi))
    husband: istp (Ti-Se) (mom istp (Ti-Se), dad intj (Ni-Te) sister estp (Se-Ti) sister enfp (Ne-Fi))

    our kids: enfp and most likely an intj

    Could epigentics during pregnancy play a role here??? total wingnut idea...but hypothyroid moms have babies who display ADHD tendancies-aka NPs. hypothyroidism effects 20% of women long term and mild versions are not caught well by current tests...

  4. #34
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    father side:

    grandpa: estj
    grandma: infj
    father: istp
    uncle 1: istj
    uncle 2: infp

    Mother side:

    grandpa: intp
    grandma: esfp
    mother: isfj

    kid 1: entp (aka estj)
    kid 2: esfj
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #35
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    Hype
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    genetic theory, or an epigenetic theory? or what? I think this is an important distinction at this juncture!

    Epigenetics changes our entire concept of what we can legitimately call "genetic", so would you plz ? You have to contend with the possibility, now - post-epigenetics -, that literally just BEING in the particular household you grew up in could activate specific genes. Being raised in an SP household may yield an artisan temperament due to their "lifestyle" and not necessarily the parents genes.

    That so-called "INTP Aunt/uncle".... that never married.... may not be INTP. Those traits may have been activated due to a lifestyle of solitude and reflection.

    I dont ask this to be a pedantic dick, but because, really, the underlying tone of your OP seems to indicate that legit personality constructs are a result of "nature" and not a nurture component. This is correct, no?

  6. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    genetic theory, or an epigenetic theory? or what? I think this is an important distinction at this juncture!

    Epigenetics changes our entire concept of what we can legitimately call "genetic", so would you plz ? You have to contend with the possibility, now - post-epigenetics -, that literally just BEING in the particular household you grew up in could activate specific genes. Being raised in an SP household may be due to their "lifestyle" and not necessarily the parents genes.

    I dont ask this to be a pedantic dick, but because, really, the underlying tone of your OP seems to indicate that legit personality constructs are a result of "nature" and not a nurture component. This is correct, no?
    What would you say to twin studies wherein: Twin 1 is raised by genetic parents. They share 50% characteristics. Twin 2 is raised by foster parents, they share 0% characteristics. Twins 1 & 2 share > 50% characteristics.

  7. #37
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    Hype
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    hmmm, what are you looking at as "characteristics" ? pencil and paper indicators of temperament? biased parental units/experiemnters and their observations? :p

    The point isn't so much about the stats or the numbers to back soemthing up at this point, its the observation that the numbers are possibly meaningless because there is no more distinction between nature or nurture. (or, if there IS one, it just got a LOT more complicated)

    here's what you need to ask in lieu of epigenetics: in the above case, what happens when you bring in children that initially share 0 % of the characteristics of the genetic parents, and the parents actualyl BELIEVE/treat the child as their own kin? what % of the characteristics would they adopt?!?

    I wouldn't be surprised if you found %50 , or anything statistically near to it :p I think the main problem is thinking of " inherited genetic similarity" as if it is some sort of static code that lingers inside us and our sperm/eggs..... it's not like that. we are FAR more interactive than that, and epigenetics and psychology will prove it

  8. #38
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    Hype
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    From Wiki: "Epigenetic changes are preserved when cells divide. Most epigenetic changes only occur within the course of one individual organism's lifetime, but some epigenetic changes are inherited from one generation to the next"

    To the nature/nurture debate, the bolded proposition is bad enough. This means the part of genetic expression that is due to environment can carry over throughout the organism's life cycle - that means, literally, a bad environment in youth can "poison" you for life.

    However, as to the debate about personality and genetic theories, the Italicized part is extremly damming/concerning. to put it in perspective, let me use a particular example: The house your biological father grew up in. It literally had an affect on his genetic expression. This effect could have lingered throughout his life and until and including the point you were conceived - then once his seed is gone, let's say he leaves and has no hand in raising you. What happens? His influence and his "nurture" are gone, right? Well no, many things happen to make up an organism, but epigenetics tells us its possible that the experience of your father's living inside the house he did lingers on throughout your own genetic expression. That's just one possibility.... when you think of ALL the powerful effects that environment has on an organism.... well, I'm sorry, but I'm not sure there's anything called "nature", at all, as far as this debate goes!

    THIS MEANS THERE COULD BE ABSOLUTELY ZERO GENETIC/PHYSICAL BASIS FOR TYPE!! It could literally, entirely, be a carrying-over of environment effects from one generation to the next, the womb no longer being the filter for "bad traits" that we often think of it as!! this is huge, man, huge!

  9. #39
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    From Wiki: "Epigenetic changes are preserved when cells divide. Most epigenetic changes only occur within the course of one individual organism's lifetime, but some epigenetic changes are inherited from one generation to the next"

    To the nature/nurture debate, the bolded proposition is bad enough. This means the part of genetic expression that is due to environment can carry over throughout the organism's life cycle - that means, literally, a bad environment in youth can "poison" you for life.

    However, as to the debate about personality and genetic theories, the Italicized part is extremly damming/concerning. to put it in perspective, let me use a particular example: The house your biological father grew up in. It literally had an affect on his genetic expression. This effect could have lingered throughout his life and until and including the point you were conceived - then once his seed is gone, let's say he leaves and has no hand in raising you. What happens? His influence and his "nurture" are gone, right? Well no, many things happen to make up an organism, but epigenetics tells us its possible that the experience of your father's living inside the house he did lingers on throughout your own genetic expression. That's just one possibility.... when you think of ALL the powerful effects that environment has on an organism.... well, I'm sorry, but I'm not sure there's anything called "nature", at all, as far as this debate goes!

    THIS MEANS THERE COULD BE ABSOLUTELY ZERO GENETIC/PHYSICAL BASIS FOR TYPE!! It could literally, entirely, be a carrying-over of environment effects from one generation to the next, the womb no longer being the filter for "bad traits" that we often think of it as!! this is huge, man, huge!
    Noz, I dont want to deny this totally, but I would feel more comfortable (dude what an effin feeler I am) if epigentic influences could be shown to be heavily biologically influenced in some way-mom's age, health, nicotine consumption, and so on, rather than simply dad spending a few extra minutes hanging out at the house.

    My only evidence is of course subjective, but my kids emerged from the womb as a FP and as a TJ. In the first ten minutes of birth my second kid was amazingly different in temperment already than the first. So I would place more confidence in looking at gestational epigenetic effects rather than early developmental effects on epigentics.

    I'd suspect early developmental issues to more strongly drive abnormal development of the core personality type. Say if you are a feeler in a super thinker household. My little sister-in-law is an enfp in a house hold full of very strong Ts (thier motto is "if your gonna be dumb you'd better be tough"). She is now borderline personality and takes lots of meds.

  10. #40

    Default

    Interesting thread. I thought the only preference tied to biology would be Introvert-Extravert, and all the rest were developmental. Especially T vs. F.

    Are you collecting all the parent-children lists in the OP?

    Mom:IsTP
    Dad:INfJ
    Kids in Birth Order: (Male)Intp, (Female)eNfP, (Male)Isfp

    Since we are wildly speculating, here are my thoughts:

    Theory one:
    All preferences as multiple-allele, J vs. P with P being recessive, S vs. N with N being recessive, F vs. T with T recessive, E vs. I with I being recessive. Though, the only preference where I can see evidence of one being recessive is N. Also, maybe T vs. F is tied to gender.

    Theory Two:
    All functions multiple allele, with expression of function being recessive.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

Similar Threads

  1. Great (Wo)men and Warm Bodies. Two Extreme Theories of Innovation
    By ygolo in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-25-2013, 10:00 PM
  2. Cognitive Functions and Type Dynamics - A Failed Theory?
    By /DG/ in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10-23-2012, 08:12 PM
  3. Music and String Theory
    By wyrdsister in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-16-2012, 09:32 PM
  4. Hyperfocus and the hunter vs. farmer theory.
    By ajblaise in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-27-2009, 11:06 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO