# Thread: Costrin and BlackCat's super duper typology overview (of doom)

1. girls can't be knights?

2. Female knight is a dame.

3. Originally Posted by iwakar
Knight is a great visual reference, but I suspect troublesome when applied to female ISTJs.
As a female ISTJ, I think it's a pretty awesome visual reference!
I may be atypical.
The profile's great so far though BlackCat You've been with us too much.

4. Originally Posted by Costrin
So, in preparation of my ISTP profile, I decided to write a description of Ti. There are many misconceptions of what Ti is (specifically, the common conception of Ti is actually closer to TiNe), and an understanding of how it works is essential to understanding the ISTP.

First, what Ti is not:
Ti is not inherently logical.
Ti is not linear.
Ti is not theoretical.
Ti is not objective-oriented (though it is object-oriented).

Now that that's out of the way, my Ti description:

Introverted Thinking
Ti is an introverted judging process. It takes data given by Extraverted Perceiving and judges it. Ti basically takes the data, and “melds” with it, it analyzes it from all angles until it understands the essential qualities of it completely. This is a non-linear, almost unconscious process, and it does not make use of logic. The logic of Ti comes from the fact that the data is understood completely, including all the rules of how it operates, which is logical. For example, if you use a hammer on a nail, Ti figures out how the force of the hammer causes the nail to be driven into the wood, and how far, and at what angle, etc. It takes in all the variables simultaneously and figures out how the system as a whole works, but if asked, it's answer will likely be something along the lines of “because that's how it works, can't you see that?”. Whereas a Te approach would be to take the force of the swing, the weight of the hammer, surface area, length of the nail, density of the wood, angle the nail is hit, etc and preform a lengthy and complicated math problem. As you can see, Te is just plain inefficient here (ironically, considering Te is all about efficiency). Furthermore, Ti is experiential. It relies upon actual real world data seen personally by the individual. Here is where much of the confusion arises. Because of the nature of Ne, it allows you to see things that don't actually physically exist, and Ti is able to utilize that data, but fundamentally, the individual is still experiencing it. The experiential nature of Ti is much more noticeable when paired with Se. Se gives physical external data which Ti uses. The above hammer example is TiSe in action. Another place where Ti is evident is in music. Where a Te approach to learning to play an instrument would be to learn the scales and chords and how to read sheet music and all that, Ti would learn by doing. It would learn by experimenting with the instrument, by listening to music and hearing the underlying structure and then applying that to the individual's own playing. It learns how different sounds fit together by hearing it, as opposed to someone telling you for example, “the first plus third plus fifth notes in a scale make a major chord which sounds good” in a very mathematical and mechanical way.

And stuff. Yes I know it needs editing, I'll do that later.
Great job Costrin. You almost made me cry.

Is it just me or do INTPs (or possibly INTs in general) have a large knowledge base? What will explain this in your INTP profile Costrin? (just as a little reminder) and will this supersede that of the ISTJ? (with primary Si) This is aside from your ISTP profile.

5. Originally Posted by Costrin
So, in preparation of my ISTP profile, I decided to write a description of Ti. There are many misconceptions of what Ti is (specifically, the common conception of Ti is actually closer to TiNe), and an understanding of how it works is essential to understanding the ISTP.

First, what Ti is not:
Ti is not inherently logical.
Ti is not linear.
Ti is not theoretical.
Ti is not objective-oriented (though it is object-oriented).

Now that that's out of the way, my Ti description:

Introverted Thinking
Ti is an introverted judging process. It takes data given by Extraverted Perceiving and judges it. Ti basically takes the data, and “melds” with it, it analyzes it from all angles until it understands the essential qualities of it completely. This is a non-linear, almost unconscious process, and it does not make use of logic. The logic of Ti comes from the fact that the data is understood completely, including all the rules of how it operates, which is logical. For example, if you use a hammer on a nail, Ti figures out how the force of the hammer causes the nail to be driven into the wood, and how far, and at what angle, etc. It takes in all the variables simultaneously and figures out how the system as a whole works, but if asked, it's answer will likely be something along the lines of “because that's how it works, can't you see that?”. Whereas a Te approach would be to take the force of the swing, the weight of the hammer, surface area, length of the nail, density of the wood, angle the nail is hit, etc and preform a lengthy and complicated math problem. As you can see, Te is just plain inefficient here (ironically, considering Te is all about efficiency). Furthermore, Ti is experiential. It relies upon actual real world data seen personally by the individual. Here is where much of the confusion arises. Because of the nature of Ne, it allows you to see things that don't actually physically exist, and Ti is able to utilize that data, but fundamentally, the individual is still experiencing it. The experiential nature of Ti is much more noticeable when paired with Se. Se gives physical external data which Ti uses. The above hammer example is TiSe in action. Another place where Ti is evident is in music. Where a Te approach to learning to play an instrument would be to learn the scales and chords and how to read sheet music and all that, Ti would learn by doing. It would learn by experimenting with the instrument, by listening to music and hearing the underlying structure and then applying that to the individual's own playing. It learns how different sounds fit together by hearing it, as opposed to someone telling you for example, “the first plus third plus fifth notes in a scale make a major chord which sounds good” in a very mathematical and mechanical way.

And stuff. Yes I know it needs editing, I'll do that later.
I liked it. This description was Ti and Se based. Can you do a Ti and Ne description to contrast?

Just an idea, I know that means I'm making more work for you.

6. Originally Posted by Bamboo
I liked it. This description was Ti and Se based. Can you do a Ti and Ne description to contrast?

Just an idea, I know that means I'm making more work for you.
Hmm...

Basically something like this:
Ne observes something and comes up with a possibility for why it happened, or how the situation can evolve in the future. Ti then analyzes those possibilities, "melds" with them, and understands the fundamentals of them. The possibilities are then compares with already integrated data stored in memory to see where it fits in the puzzle. If the piece fits, then it is stored. When new data is gathered, it is analyzed and compared to the mental model, and it's place found. If it contradicts the model, it is determined whether the new data fits the data better, or if the old data does, and the loser gets thrown out.

For example:
While learning typology, I come up with a bunch of various explanations of how say, Ti works. My primary reference point was myself, with secondary reference points being others. I would come up with a description, and Ti would evaluate and say "that fits the data, it must be correct." As I gathered more data, and came up with more explanations, Ti would say "that explanation fits the data better, so it is correct" and then a new explanation, and a new one, ad infinitum until I arrived at my current one.

Another example:
Economics. The economical data is taken in, and explanations for why that happened are formed, and theories on what is going to happen in the future are formed. Each possibility is assessed by Ti for how well it fits the data, and is integrated or dismissed accordingly, and a mental model is formed. When the situation changes, the new data is compared to the model, and the model is refined accordingly.

As is apparent, Si is necessary in order to ground INTPs to reality. Si details basically act as anchors keeping the boat from drifting away. Likely similiar for ISTPs, Ni ties the otherwise disparate Se data together.

And stuff.

7. Originally Posted by Costrin
It takes in all the variables simultaneously and figures out how the system as a whole works, but if asked, it's answer will likely be something along the lines of “because that's how it works, can't you see that?”. Whereas a Te approach would be to take the force of the swing, the weight of the hammer, surface area...
A short note: Don't you think this comparison is true in general of introverted functions vs. extroverted functions?

8. Originally Posted by Cimarron
A short note: Don't you think this comparison is true in general of introverted functions vs. extroverted functions?
Likely.

9. Originally Posted by BlackCat
Okay, so I've been working on this ISTJ profile and everything has been going great until I got to the non dominant function descriptions. Care to help ISTJs? By the way this is a prototype, it's subject to change if something is inaccurate.

Extroverted Intuition, Ne-
I'm not one, but I've been close to enough of them.

They generally like both science fiction as well as theory, and do have a capacity for exploring possibilities, and other abstract things. It just takes a back seat to their past-focused concrete awareness.

10. Just released the profile here.

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