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  1. #31
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    here is the efficient way, to get extroverted dominant people to participate in a topic.

    oh dear extroverted people, i go down on my knees, to ask you to be so benevolent as to pleaasssee brag about your beautiful value system in your own words. make me believe in the absolute truth, coming straight from your perfect self-image, thank you. because i was unable to figure you out, while observing you for 30 years, and i feel so incomplete for not seeing your perfection.

    only, that would create once more the illusion that you are needed AND benevolent. but you are not. it is the every day benevolence of "weak" people like me, that puts you in the position to have easy kings sized demands to others without having to be self-critical at all. you despise this benevolence as "weakness" and you may be right about that, except you contradict yourself, because you demand such weakness compulsively and go completely bonkers if you dont get it, as you have proven in this thread.

    here is how values are supposed to work: if you think that something is bad, you will not only refrain from doing it yourself, but you will also discourage others from doing it. now, for the show of it, you pretend that you want me to be strong, yet i am strong in this thread, i simply talk from my past (more than 15 years ago), and you attack me, because i am not down on my knees, right away.

    the truth is, that you have been friends with me, when i was weak, because i was weak, but you could not accept any sign of strength besides you, could not bear the idea that you are not needed like a god.

    this is me, making you prove your true values, against your wish.

    it was not even my plan to do this, when i created the thread. i was certainly a conscious decision to not go down on my knees before asking you something, but i had no idea it would turn out like that.

    i was honestly overestimating you, believing your narcissism had gone 15 years ago - you had dis-identified from this early value set that 95% of you have in common, and you could talk about it honestly, admit it, without guilt but simply for the sake of objectivity.

    but you are probably just 15 years old right now .... i should have thought about that.
    Wow. I have not read anything more ignorant or condescending for quite some time. If you believe in such stereotyping then you are a fool.

  2. #32
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I have a couple of questions for EXTPs:

    What does it take for you to trust someone and show your 'vulnerable' side? And for that matter, when someone decides to take a leap of faith and trust you, do you perceive it as vulnerability? And if so, how do you respond to this vulnerability? Are you truly Darwinian about it and consider it a mistake on the part of the others and use it to your advantage? Or are you endeared by it and feel a need to protect that person, feel special even that they chose to open up to you?
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #33
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I have a couple of questions for EXTPs:
    Answers on the way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    What does it take for you to trust someone and show your 'vulnerable' side?
    Trust is given for one of two reasons: (1) Someone earns your trust by doing something that proves they are of good character and have your best interest in mind, or (2) You have enough simple experiences with another that over time you understand them to be like you in many ways and extend them your trust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    And for that matter, when someone decides to take a leap of faith and trust you, do you perceive it as vulnerability?
    No. It's an honor to have someone extend their trust to me. It is vulnerability, but it is not a weakness. They are making themselves vulnerable because they trust I will not hold that over them. I value my friendships highly, and there is no friendship without trust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    And if so, how do you respond to this vulnerability?
    I am supportive of it in the scope and context of my friendship with that person. I am of good intent, I wish no one harm, and actually quite nice and helpful. If someone places an inappropriate amount of trust in me (e.g. tells me of deeply disturbing things requiring professional guidance) then I make all efforts to guide them to an appropriate support network and consider my work done. I am not a psychiatrist, and I cannot assume the problems of the world on my own shoulders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Are you truly Darwinian about it and consider it a mistake on the part of the others and use it to your advantage?
    No, I answered as such above. That is manipulative and I cannot tolerate such behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Or are you endeared by it and feel a need to protect that person, feel special even that they chose to open up to you?
    Answered above.


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    :
    What does it take for you to trust someone and show your 'vulnerable' side?
    it happens when it happens...OR if im TRYING to trust someone, ill just tell'em whatever then big secret is and hope for the best. i trust someone before i distrust them

    vulnerable side? usually never. there are times when im supposed to be the pillar of confidence and all that stuff...if i show a vulnerable side, how am i supposed to able to support that other person?
    that brings up another question....whats 'vulnerable' to me? most people close to me think they have seen something vulnerable but, other than my parents, no one has truly seen anything 'vulnerable' (at this point im gonna define vulnerable as something that makes me feel insecure to the point that i dont know who i am anymore)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    And for that matter, when someone decides to take a leap of faith and trust you, do you perceive it as vulnerability? And if so, how do you respond to this vulnerability? Are you truly Darwinian about it and consider it a mistake on the part of the others and use it to your advantage? Or are you endeared by it and feel a need to protect that person, feel special even that they chose to open up to you?
    it depends on the situation but more often than not, this is NOT a vulnerability. i respect that person's decisions and feelings. everyone to their own. i NEVER use such information for a leverage. its much more rewarding and fun to get people to do your bidding while nurturing their own self-respect and the preserving respect they have for me.

    No, im not usually 'endeared' by it either. i wont protect the person, but i will stand up for them after the they have taken the first few punches

  5. #35
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinkleToes View Post
    ENTP style is also to be very blunt and honest during the 10% of communication that is not entertaining creative Ne bullshit
    It seems to me that ENTP's are fairly honest unless it's something they don't want to discuss, in which case they evade and omit. They do like to appear "blunt and honest", though, which can make them seem disingenuous.

    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    I do get a bit bothered when I read about "immoral ENTPs". We only seem immoral because we can fight on both sides. This means nothing about what we'd actually do. My argument's poor, but this topic saddens me. We're not that shallow.
    I think ENTP's are damned. Highly moral and yet highly influenced and deeply affected by the world around them, so that they sometimes compromise what they believe in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I have a couple of questions for EXTPs:

    What does it take for you to trust someone and show your 'vulnerable' side? And for that matter, when someone decides to take a leap of faith and trust you, do you perceive it as vulnerability? And if so, how do you respond to this vulnerability? Are you truly Darwinian about it and consider it a mistake on the part of the others and use it to your advantage? Or are you endeared by it and feel a need to protect that person, feel special even that they chose to open up to you?
    It is very very very hard for me to be vulnerable. It really takes a special person to let go with. I do not perceive their trust as a weakness or vulnerability unless I feel like they are trying to serve some ulterior personal motive of their own rather than really seeing me and loving me. If I feel like they see me, understand me, and accept me, and if I can respect them, it is powerfully endearing to me. I become their slave.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  6. #36
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Why would the packaging of input information have anything to do with their values?
    we fukin won boys

  7. #37
    brat Mitzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I have a couple of questions for EXTPs:

    What does it take for you to trust someone and show your 'vulnerable' side?
    And for that matter, when someone decides to take a leap of faith and trust you, do you perceive it as vulnerability?
    And if so, how do you respond to this vulnerability?
    Are you truly Darwinian about it and consider it a mistake on the part of the others and use it to your advantage?
    Or are you endeared by it and feel a need to protect that person, feel special even that they chose to open up to you?

    if someone whos nice and has good intentions trusts me..i do see it as vulnerability. i think them themselves are weak already..them trusting me would just prove my point further. if theyre a "stronger" type of person and they trust me, i would laugh and be condescending towards them.
    i do see it as a mistake on their part and i probably would take advantage of their trust.
    and the last question...no.

    however, i think it all related to the first question. if i havent showed my vulnerable side to them, then theyre not really registered on my map therefore, i dont care about them. if i have, all answers change. it doesnt take much for me to show it. just some basic things like
    me actually not being too lazy to show it and actually feel like developing a connection or relationship with someone
    most of it has to do with time
    it takes a lot of time for me to fully open up with someone
    and even if i do, its a very uncomfortable position to be in
    She talks pretty but says mean things

  8. #38
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukepd View Post
    I don't get this thread at all

    Are you saying all ESTPs are egocentric?

    Cut to the point already
    seconded, the only thing this thread has done has pissed me off.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  9. #39
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    If I feel like they see me, understand me, and accept me, and if I can respect them, it is powerfully endearing to me. I become their slave.
    Nicely put. It's rare for all 4 criteria to be met in a friendship.

    To be seen is easy, to be understood a bit more difficult, and to be accepted as you are, that is an act of love IMHO. To have all three of these in a friendship is truly nice.

    At this point in my life respect is a big deal. I respect certain things about certain people, but there are very, very few people that I can honestly say that I respect unequivocably. Actions speak louder than words, earn trust, build respect, it takes time.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I have a couple of questions for EXTPs:

    What does it take for you to trust someone and show your 'vulnerable' side? And for that matter, when someone decides to take a leap of faith and trust you, do you perceive it as vulnerability? And if so, how do you respond to this vulnerability? Are you truly Darwinian about it and consider it a mistake on the part of the others and use it to your advantage? Or are you endeared by it and feel a need to protect that person, feel special even that they chose to open up to you?
    oh yeah I relate to the bolded

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