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  1. #31
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    But what about unleashing anger? That seems like one of the more extraverted traits.
    Biologically speaking, not so much. MBTI doesn't measure the trait (emotional stability/neuroticism) that expresses negative emotions.

    The behavioural side of personality might say something similar to that, however, as part of their definition of extraversion. This is where the specific definition involved matters a lot (MBTI vs FFM vs Biology all say something somewhat different about what being "E" is.)

  2. #32
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    pt, isn't introversion tied to a biological higher arousal state?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #33
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    pt, isn't introversion tied to a biological higher arousal state?
    That has been implied, yes. The problem is the language being used. There is no "introversion" and "extroversion" - that's a carry over from Jung.

    Extraversion, biologically, is just the way the mind deals with emotions - emotions we consider positive. Interestingly enough, I just got a PM this morning that was talking about this. In that study, it showed that positive reactions are centered around only extraversion (and negative emotions are not)... that is, the degree of extraversion one shows is correlated to the degree of activity in specific parts of the brain.

    IOW, introverts don't have the same capacity, tendency, whatever, for positive emotions.

    The why of this comes in different flavours, but it would seem that low-extraverts, namely introverts, have lower reactions as a result of already being "primed" for the emotion. That is, the positive change is "repressed" because they are over sensitive to it. In a strange twist of logic, introverts avoid social situations because they make them feel "positive" - too much so. The feeling of being overwhelmed and everything else likely stems from this. However, biologically, no one knows why this is exactly, far as I know. Could be density, some form of chemical sensitivity, etc.

    However, I don't know that much about this stuff, so I wouldn't take this as the "end all". Some of this information comes from stuff like introverts salivate more when presented with a stimulus. Not exactly what I'd call... uhhh... directly related. However, taken apart, it seems almost certain that these two theories are related... I think how is still a bit speculative.

  4. #34
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I thought I remembered something like that. Like you say, I'm not sure how/if it correlates with MBTI, but, in the classic sense of introversion, there is a biological component.

    Here's a portion of a Wiki entry:
    Differences in brain function
    Eysenck proposed that extraversion was caused by variability in cortical arousal; "introverts are characterized by higher levels of activity than extraverts and so are chronically more cortically aroused than extraverts". Because extraverts are less aroused internally, they require more external stimulation than introverts.
    To me, this means that basically, we perceive the world as if it is set at a very high volume level and we cannot turn it down. The only way to reduce the sensory overload is to escape from the stimuli. It's easier to take when well-rested and in a good mood, but it's still draining.

    For the extroverts, imagine being stuck at a rock concert for ten plus hours a day five or more days a week and not being allowed to leave. Even if you love the music, it's going to get to you eventually.

    [Please excuse the technical difficulties ]
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #35
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    To me, this means that basically, we perceive the world as if it is set at a very high volume level and we cannot turn it down. The only way to reduce the sensory overload is to escape from the stimuli. It's easier to take when well-rested and in a good mood, but it's still draining.
    The problem is that this associates the lack of extraversion with negative emotions... In reality it's only at the most basic level that this arousal happens. It's difficult to use the chemical biological theory and explain it in behavioural terms.

    A better analogy, maybe, would be that introverts have constant white noise that blankets out the sound of music. As such, we don't tend to like music. (The white noise referring to the concept of existing arousal, and the lack of desire to listen to music to the lack of positive emotional reactions - ie: the stimulus isn't strong enough to peak above the "white noise"). The draining refers to the effort required to "listen" through the white noise.

    The really difficult part to get one's head around is the concept that "arousal" levels doesn't mean "stronger emotional reaction", rather that "arousal" means "diminished emotional reactions". One of these days I'll find someone who can explain exactly how this is suppose to work...

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    The problem is that this associates the lack of extraversion with negative emotions... In reality it's only at the most basic level that this arousal happens. It's difficult to use the chemical biological theory and explain it in behavioural terms.

    A better analogy, maybe, would be that introverts have constant white noise that blankets out the sound of music. As such, we don't tend to like music. (The white noise referring to the concept of existing arousal, and the lack of desire to listen to music to the lack of positive emotional reactions - ie: the stimulus isn't strong enough to peak above the "white noise"). The draining refers to the effort required to "listen" through the white noise.

    The really difficult part to get one's head around is the concept that "arousal" levels doesn't mean "stronger emotional reaction", rather that "arousal" means "diminished emotional reactions". One of these days I'll find someone who can explain exactly how this is suppose to work...
    Hmm. Yeah, I'd like to understand the concept better, but honestly it does feel like everything is just turned up too high.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #37
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  8. #38
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    A better analogy, maybe, would be that introverts have constant white noise that blankets out the sound of music. As such, we don't tend to like music. (The white noise referring to the concept of existing arousal, and the lack of desire to listen to music to the lack of positive emotional reactions - ie: the stimulus isn't strong enough to peak above the "white noise"). The draining refers to the effort required to "listen" through the white noise.
    That's a great explanation, pt.

    This signature left intentionally blank.

    Really.

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