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  1. #21
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    I do NOT buy this. Si Ti is paralyzing, as you said. Each P function must pair with a J function of opposite attitude.
    No, not in all cases... only if you dwell in same attitude JP pairs do you get into problems. You can say many INFJs do their best thinking here on the forum using Ni Ti.

    About the 6th function...

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    About the 6th... Here's is my unproven rational behind why it's the 6th that's problematic and not 4,7 or 8. For something to be problematic... we must be aware of it, and use it in some very limited fashion. Which throws 7 (trickster) and to some extent 8 (daemon) out the window, because those two barely register on somebody's radar.

    7 is the shadow of your tertiary and is also the direct opposite of your auxiliary... For INFJ 7th is Te... Under most circumstances, Fe automatically makes a decision. Unless you consciously practice overriding Fe with Te... there's no way Te will affect your life. And if it's practiced conscious use... well I suspect it wouldn't flare up unexpectedly.

    8 is the shadow of your inferior, which is Si for INFJ. You hear people whine and "complain" about how they had lousy memory... and are total space cadets. But they're never seriously complaining that it's a problem... It's more of an affectionate thing. They don't mind the lack of Si... because their dominant Ni takes care of everything (same direction (internally directed) opposite (N vs S)).

    4 is the inferior, Se for INFJs. This one is harder to explain as to why the 6th and not 4th is usually the most problematic... You do see 4 flaring up under stress... but that tends to happen to less balanced individuals. Berens? theory of JP pairs... under normal circumstances, dominant and auxiliary runs everything. Stress happens when dominant and auxiliary can't handle it... and the person is forced to use the ill-equipped 3rd and 4th. Hence function misuse shows up. However most theories don't look at well developed individuals with practiced use of 3rd and shadows... If you see yourself doing something that you don't like... then chances are you'll try to correct it. It doesn't really matter whether they know what specific function it's called or if it's even a function... they practice to improve it so they don't do that stupid thing again. If you're aware of a problem... you're less likely to be caught by surprise... which is why the inferior is rarely the problematic function in a well developed individual.

    6 is the shadow of your auxiliary, Fi in INFJs. It's the most problematic in well developed individuals because as Apollanaut said it's one of the last functions for you to develop... it also doesn't have a very strong same direction opposite (i.e. your Ti is only tertiary). This is the function that's most likely to catch you blindsided because it's the least balanced.
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  2. #22
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    The theory is ISTJ => ENFP

    Under stress you start using your ill-practiced inferior and tertiary functions because your dominant and auxiliary aren't cut it for the job.

    That's the theory, but I've found no support of this from looking at people's behaviour.

    Instead it seems to me like the "6th" function what's suppose to be the (witch) shadow auxiliary, seems to misbehave under stress.

    ISTJ => Si Te Fi Ne Se Ti Fe Ni
    6th would be Ti.
    Tendency to be stubborn, rigid in defining the system. Paralysis in analysis. Hesitancy in moving forward. (Si Ti)

    Truth or BS in your opinion?
    Maybe we should figure out what "areas" of behavior we're considering.

    ISTJ can definitely show the pattern you describe, but to me they (both ISFJ and ISTJ) still seem primarily defined by wild Ne -- the fearful side. they rarely get manic in their Ne, instead it's all about overwhelming and unrealistic fears that they are imagining when Si is no longer able to preserve their lives against the onset of change, and it is this fear that leads to them becoming even MORE calcitrant and plodding and checking and double-checking and unable to do ANYTHING, stuck in the mud.

    i.e., the influence of the Inferior or shadow function to the primary.

    when I talk to ISTJs in the throes of the shadow, it's not Ti they approach things from regardless of what you think it looks like on the surface (because common behaviors can have various motivations), it's really bad Ne... that's what underlying their behavior.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  3. #23
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Ne induced paranoia hey? Hmmmm this requires some digesting...
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  4. #24
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Ne induced paranoia hey? Hmmmm this requires some digesting...
    It's a hoot, believe me.

    Once the foundation gets shaken, any wild thought becomes plausible. That's what happens when one's security depends on change prevention... there are no resources that can steer one through unavoidable change.

    (and this is generally why they approach change by making checklists and talking to experts and controlling the process as much as possible. They want to eradicate possibilities, to reduce anxiety.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #25
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    I'm sorry Jennifer, but what you've said isn't going in.

    Please use another type as an example of inferior function flare-up in stress? Because for the life of me I couldn't see Se as being more problematic than Fi in INFJs under stress. Sometimes I overindulge in food etc... but usually I just sit and mope and beat myself up.
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