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  1. #21
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I'm guessing you haven't seen my posts on INTPc, so that probably adds to your confusion regarding me. I think type is situational and I think the F/T distinction is very ambiguous and situational as well.

    I am certain I'm an EN and I've been pretty sure that I'm a P, but I can be very J sometimes, which is the inspiration for this thread. I'm wondering if I'm naturally J and just resisting it somehow.

    I have a well developed T and F and what I favor depends entirely on who I'm dealing with and the subject matter.

    I know people are trying to be helpful, trying to put me in a box, but I just don't fit. I like ptgatsby's analysis the most, so far.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #22
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    I also wonder whether I'm a J or a P.

    My room is messy.
    But it bothers me. Disorder does unsettle me.
    I'm often late and tend to misplace and forget and lose things.
    But I would love to lead a systematic and organized life.
    I try many different things and am interested in a lot of stuff.
    But I wish I could stick with something, develop one of my skills to "championship" level, and have a more clearly defined and solid identity.
    I'm open-minded to new ideas and I never consider my thoughts, opinions and ideas "final".
    But I dream of knowing things for sure-- I simply think it's practical to keep my mind open because I don't believe that my thoughts could ever *be* right but since I want to keep them as close to "right" as possible, I need to be ready to develop and enhance them.
    I question myself a lot.
    But I would love to be consistent and confident.
    Some people have said that I seem to have a fear of making final decisions.
    But of course I would love to find something that is appealing enough to make it a final part of myself/my value system/my life.

    (One of my next goals is to define my principles and values clearly and then rely upon them.)

    So, for the most part, I would prefer J but I systematically act on P.

    On most online personality tests I score as a P.

    Which am I?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Definitely Fi, but I don't buy into all the function order stuff with MBTI. When I look at function order lists, it looks to me like they were trying to come up with a neat looking pattern. I don't think function order is as well defined as it's made out to be.
    Just wanted to say that I agree. Some people seem to focus a bit too much on the function order imho, taking it as a fact that applies to everyone. Like. "As an infp you should avoid Ti because it is your DEMON function."

    I think that the function order thing is very approximate and statistical at the most. It's like a high-flown fantasy of a perfect system to classify people and tell us: "This is how *you* work/function/operate. The great mathematical machine knows you."

  4. #24
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    If the classification bothers you all then why are you trying to figure out if you're a J or a P?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #25
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    Hmm. The function order chart bothers me makes me doubt, not MBTI. (Although I do tend to question even MBTI and don't think it's entirely true or totally accurate or completely exhausting, but then again, rare people do.)

    (Now I'm going to edit an extra ramble into my message.) And I didn't mean it as an insult to anyone who believes in function order. I was thinking about it just today and took a function test and my results were a bit different from the standard INFP function order, as I had expected (although tests are also approximate). I think the function order is a bit different with every individual although it may give direction when determining someone's type.

    So it's just not useful imo to stare at the supposed function order list when analyzing someone, because the list is only a hypothesis.

    (Another edit.) Plus if a theory that fascinates me makes me doubt, I like to get to know the theory better so as to better judge it. That is actually what has happened to me and the MBTI. Initial reaction: an updated & commercialized version of some ancient Greek typology (read: ridiculous)? Current reaction: insightful tool, works better for some people and worse for others.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    If the classification bothers you all then why are you trying to figure out if you're a J or a P?
    Eh, classification doesn't really bother me. It's just that I've been down the road of considering whether or not I'm an ENFJ and it just doesn't fit. The ENFP and ENTJ descriptions fit me the best, depending on the situation. I know you've said that doesn't make sense and that's why I started talking about function order. Perhaps when I start getting very decisive, I start relying on T, but when I'm relaxing and socializing, I'm relying more on F. I think that's entirely possible.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaveri View Post
    I also wonder whether I'm a J or a P.

    My room is messy.
    But it bothers me. Disorder does unsettle me.
    I'm often late and tend to misplace and forget and lose things.
    But I would love to lead a systematic and organized life.
    I try many different things and am interested in a lot of stuff.
    But I wish I could stick with something, develop one of my skills to "championship" level, and have a more clearly defined and solid identity.
    I'm open-minded to new ideas and I never consider my thoughts, opinions and ideas "final".
    But I dream of knowing things for sure-- I simply think it's practical to keep my mind open because I don't believe that my thoughts could ever *be* right but since I want to keep them as close to "right" as possible, I need to be ready to develop and enhance them.
    I question myself a lot.
    But I would love to be consistent and confident.
    Some people have said that I seem to have a fear of making final decisions.
    But of course I would love to find something that is appealing enough to make it a final part of myself/my value system/my life.

    (One of my next goals is to define my principles and values clearly and then rely upon them.)

    So, for the most part, I would prefer J but I systematically act on P.

    On most online personality tests I score as a P.

    Which am I?

    This is me too. I settled on INFP over INFJ based on my cognitive functions results. However my Ni and Ne levels were both high. Oh well, nothing is perfect I guess.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaveri View Post
    I was thinking about it just today and took a function test and my results were a bit different from the standard INFP function order, as I had expected (although tests are also approximate). I think the function order is a bit different with every individual although it may give direction when determining someone's type.
    You might like this test:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...nstrument.html

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Eh, classification doesn't really bother me. I've just been down the road of considering whether or not I'm an ENFJ and it just doesn't fit. The ENFP and ENTJ descriptions fit me the best, depending on the situation. I know you've said that doesn't make sense and that's why I started talking about function order. Perhaps when I start getting very decisive, I start relying on T, but when I'm relaxing and socializing, I'm relying more on F. I think that's entirely possible.
    Are you spontaneous or controlled? Are you a creature of habit when you're not motivated? If so, I'd think you'd lean closer to J.

    I thought I was an INTP at first, but then I realized that any type could be unmotivated or lazy when things just aren't of their interest.

    Laziness is more a state of mind than anything resulting from stress, it doesn't really have much to do with personality type, because in theory, both J and P are valid, but the J is generally more focused.

    I think that the J preference leads people to believe that hard-working necessarily means society's definition of hard-working, but then I discovered that I actually am hard-working and focused when something is occupying my mind -- I'm quite unbending in that way.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Are you spontaneous or controlled? Are you a creature of habit when you're not motivated? If so, I'd think you'd lean closer to J.
    I enjoy randomness, which probably leans toward spontaneity.

    After reading ptgatsby's responses, I'm thinking I'm naturally ENFP, but I was trained to be ENTJ. My father is an ESTJ and my personality strongly emulated his when I was younger. Though I've never been an S (I retreated into my mind a lot when I was a child), I did learn most of his other traits. It wasn't until I went to college that my natural personality started to assert itself. I still have remnants of that ENTJ personality that are available to me when I want them and they're certainly useful at times.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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