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  1. #1
    Senior Member Kephalos's Avatar
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    Default Judgment Problem of Introverted Intuition?

    Something has been bothering me about Introverted Intuition although it could possibly apply also to all types with a dominant perceiving function. Jung describes Introverted Intuitives as experiencing a flow of images and associations, and says that a pure type would stop at perception. However, he does mention that in order to make a moral problem these perceptions some judgment must be developed.

    When I pondered upon this I felt I could relate very much to it often I will have an idea, and it feels certain enough for to me, but still have this urge to justify it even if I cant. This would not me so much a moral problem for perception but more intellectual. Can anyone else relate to this? Or maybe I simply misread Jung?

  2. #2
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    i guess i can relate to your last paragraph, but i am not sure about the connection to whatever jung was trying to get at.

    of course, we are perceivers at the core and Fe or Te is very secondary to how we perceive our intelligence, but it cant be omitted, if any kind of action is supposed to occur, and even writing a perspective down is already an action (of integration into a manifested matrix of reference, which is maintained by the judging functions - its that coherent world view -that single picture of everything- that must be carefully protected from a single random impression, while it essentially consists of all the best impressions). this is all pure perceiving, but its nit picky in time. one impression at a time. it needs space: it's inner life must be evoked, to explore its character. is it a good girl or an alien bitch critter.

  3. #3
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kephalos View Post
    When I pondered upon this I felt I could relate very much to it often I will have an idea, and it feels certain enough for to me, but still have this urge to justify it even if I cant. This would not me so much a moral problem for perception but more intellectual. Can anyone else relate to this? Or maybe I simply misread Jung?
    Judgment for what? The validity of your idea? Who are you trying to prove it for? Yourself? Others? If it's for internal consistency then you can say it's tied in with your tertiary Ji functon.

    Sometimes it does happen... you feel that something must work in this fashion and to some extent things relating to your self-worth (i.e. having quality ideas and theories that are true or whatever it is that you value) can be affected if you were proven wrong.

    That's not really what Jung meant though... It's suppose to be Pi + Je pairing... So Ni + Te in INTJ or Ni + Fe in INFJ. If you have an idea, and you feel that you have to prove it to somebody else... then the contingent judgment will be external. So Je will be involved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kephalos View Post
    When I pondered upon this I felt I could relate very much to it often I will have an idea, and it feels certain enough for to me, but still have this urge to justify it even if I cant. This would not me so much a moral problem for perception but more intellectual. Can anyone else relate to this? Or maybe I simply misread Jung?
    This is basically the point. Trusting Ni more than Te leads to a backing off of Te, so the justification can be hard to address, especially since I'm young and the Te function hasn't really developed too much.

    Through this example, I find extroverts odd in a way. It seems odd that one can learn to justify ideas when young (ENTJ) but has a limit to their own ideas (because Ni hasn't developed) which creates a need for extroversion and not only is the product of it (but I wonder what was there first, the need or the production). I guess the same goes for ENTP, they come up with external ideas that are barely justified by their sense of logic.

    Is it just me or is primary N at a young age like trial and error without discernment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pippi View Post
    I find that young Ni users don't trust it and rely heavily on Te or Fe. It takes time to realize that Ni is usually right and to rely on it and just use Te or Fe to back it up.
    Can Ni seem like trial and error without discernment at times? Because I can relate to that idea. It seems weird that I would trust Te over Ni.

  6. #6
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    i totally HATE if i have to rely on my vision, before it is finishes, and i currently estimate that it will be finished like 15 days after my physical body dies. reasons to not rely on my unfinished vision are both ethical and strategical (logical).

    i will only insist to act on the ground of my vision, if some circumstance forces me to take sides for either my vision, or some superficial unnatural crap, that some airhead came up with. what would jean d'arc have become, without those english invaders.

    this is why Ni people can never be called "judgers", especially if judgers are associated with self confidence and search for power and quick implementation of ideas.

    oh, well ...

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    I'm not sure what you mean by vision, since you have an X after your F.

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    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    vision=perception. Ni, unless i am Si with a mad shadow Ni but then it would still be Ni

    i think carl jung talked about the live long formulation of a single image for the whole world. dont remember the context of it.

  9. #9
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    but if by judging one means "to kill thy own ideas", then it makes sense to call us judgers

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    I don't think you can complete a vision without external sources mostly found in conversation. So I can see how young INFXs would rely mostly on their extroverted function. It would not make them very introverted then, which I feel I do rely on my Ni, so I must have been born with more vision to me or something.

    I don't know why they call me J :/

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