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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Again, I've said nothing about type.


    Yes, and this is one way Extroverted Intuition is used, though not the only.
    Instead of solely critiquing about completion, can you give some other function uses that are generally agreed upon, specifically make comparisons like Evan has? I'm sure this will strengthen the understanding.

  2. #22
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Hey look, another thread being wrecked by Mr Walker. Who honestly gives a shit what it's called? It's safe to assume that depending on how inferior a function is for a type, that you can reduce the use of the function for someone. Can't you just leave it at that and not do a non stop debate?
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Hey look, another thread being wrecked by Mr Walker. Who honestly gives a shit what it's called? It's safe to assume that depending on how inferior a function is for a type, that you can reduce the use of the function for someone. Can't you just leave it at that and not do a non stop debate?
    I want to hear what he has to say though.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    I want to hear what he has to say though.
    Oh ok. Well he should at least say his opinion on it rather than tearing down everyone else's with no proof besides his own logic.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Oh ok. Well he should at least say his opinion on it rather than tearing down everyone else's with no proof besides his own logic.
    I think everyone should abide then. At least for now :P

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    I think everyone should abide then. At least for now :P
    You can compare opinions to gain more knowledge, tearing down an opinion will do nothing but boost your ego. And ego is pointless.
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  7. #27
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    Instead of solely critiquing about completion, can you give some other function uses that are generally agreed upon, specifically make comparisons like Evan has? I'm sure this will strengthen the understanding.
    As I have mentioned earlier, Ne could be used to envisage the same situation from the same perspective. It could also be use do all the things that Ni does. I see no reason to attempt an exhaustive list as there are too many things to list. Moreover, its not important to have such a list. If we understand how functions work in principle (how Ne works for example) we could figure out all activities it could perform if we need to.

    In short, instead of helping Evan list all the behaviors of a function, I insist that his method is fundamentally in error. If we are interested in finding all the behaviors of the function, we should not attempt to accomplish this by merely observing how a function works and listing behaviors as we go, but instead note how the function works in principle and use this information to deduce all the possible ways it could operate, should we find this necessary. It is doubtful that we will, as this activity is trivial at best because such a list would be lengthy and ambiguous, it would be difficult for us to commit all items on the list to memory. It is an efficient way to do typology, as behaviorism tends to be inefficient with regard to the matters of philosophy of psychology.

    The efficient way to deal with the problem consists not in observing behaviors, but in understanding the underlying causes of behaviors.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    The efficient way to deal with the problem consists not in observing behaviors, but in understanding the underlying causes of behaviors.
    Cause and effect can be interchangeable and I don't believe you can find all the answers to this question by adopting the original rule. Correlating two behaviors can be just as beneficial as correlating a cause and effect. Causation says that any one relation can cause the other. If an Ni type exhibits a certain behavior, you should be able to find trends between both cause and effect of Ni, definition and behavior. I agree that there is fault when an analogy is mislabeled as a definition, because it, at least harm, creates a search for structure that was once there, at most it leads to a misunderstanding of all other behaviors.

  9. #29
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    Cause and effect can be interchangeable and I don't believe you can find all the answers to this question by adopting the original rule. Correlating two behaviors can be just as beneficial as correlating a cause and effect. Causation says that any one relation can cause the other. If an Ni type exhibits a certain behavior, you should be able to find trends between both cause and effect of Ni, definition and behavior. I agree that there is fault when an analogy is mislabeled as a definition.
    Not sure if I understand your point.

    My argument was that philosophy of psychology (which typology is part of) is concerned with understanding how the mind works. Behaviors are only manifestations of how the mind works and not the essence of the mind itself. Hence, behaviors can only allow us to understand the mind inferrentially at best. For this reason, there are more effective ways of understanding how the mind works than merely listing behaviors. One of such ways is taking note of the principles upon which the mind tends to function.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Not sure if I understand your point.

    My argument was that philosophy of psychology (which typology is part of) is concerned with understanding how the mind works. Behaviors are only manifestations of how the mind works and not the essence of the mind itself. Hence, behaviors can only allow us to understand the mind inferrentially at best. For this reason, there are more effective ways of understanding how the mind works than merely listing behaviors. One of such ways is taking note of the principles upon which the mind tends to function.
    I agree that principle is the key importance by designation, but that analyzing behaviors and trends will both advance the understanding of the principle that is partially known by others, thus allows a unity of current understanding, and causation of behaviors can improve upon the principle as well. Why is the definition there in the first place? There was a principle but the only way we could understand it was by first looking at the facts or behaviors, and there has not been a complete understanding of the correlation or the causation of these facts or behaviors, so the definition of the principle is inadequate because of not only a lack of introspection, but a lack of research, including making these lists and analyzing trends. I agree with you about misunderstanding analogy or behavior to be a definition, and that a modus like miswording will deteriorate an understanding. However analyzing behaviors is essential to the definition we use, as long as the focus is the principle and philology remains unflawed.

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