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What is the very first thing you notice about a person indicating they're a J or a P?

Snow Turtle

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May 28, 2007
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1,335
Yeah.
For me it'd be with dealing with changes. When something changes... Difficult to focus until it's been sorted out and I have a rough idea of where and how things will move.

Having said that... Often I'm the one that goes "Meh. It doesn't matter too much. Just a case of waiting to see" but I think that's because I feel that it's pointless to stress over these sort of things.

I remember somebody mentioning Ps are more comfortable with uncertainty than J, who can handle it... but they won't be happy in that state.
 

CrystalViolet

lab rat extraordinaire
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Oct 24, 2008
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2,152
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XNFP
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5w4
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sx/sp
I can tell a J, because they innately have to "fix" me, whether it be make sure I'm on time, some part of my clothing, or what ever. They just have too. I'm a J nightmare.
 

527468

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Oct 22, 2008
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I think you are projecting.

1. The only way a P would doubt his words is if he acted more definite than his understanding allowed him to be. In other words, if he pretended to be a J.

2. Just because someone makes a tentative statement that doesn't mean they think that the present context is going to offer something less tentative.

Ps tend to be the most comfortable making tentative statements. Just like Js are the most comfortable making definite statements. The idea here isn't that we're all the same exact people making different decisions.

I want to know what Kristiana meant by tentative since this is a subjective topic.
 

Qre:us

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And then the women started to play sports so they had to change the rules.

:whistling: I'm sure you meant, learn to put value in rules in the first place.

Is another 'stereotype' that of associating F with women? Along those lines of comparison ye speak of, or want to engage a discourse?

And....? To conclude?
 

The Outsider

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intp
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5w4
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sx
I like to think that it was a joke. Makes life a whole lot easier.
 

tibby

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Nov 22, 2008
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fool
I notice I'm with a P when I usually end up "taking more charge" of the situation than Perceiving person. I need to know where I'm getting into and sort of be in control of the situation, know what/when it is.

It's especially heightened when the P uses indirect communication style:
-I just got my paycheck
Me - Wow that's cool. Have you decided what to do with the money?
-Yes I'd like to buy pair of pants.
-So what do you want to do here?
Me - I don't know, I'm cool with everything.
-Yea, me too. I wonder if they sell pants in the store...
Me - We could go and look for them now?
-Sure.

Etc :D.
J is about direction.
 

MacGuffin

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xkcd
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Associated with J-ism? I disagree, to a degree. Organization and punctuality manifests itself in multiple ways. For example, the house is a mess, but my teaching and research materials are quite organized. In addition, I am usually fairly punctual to school-related events, but often late to personal things like meeting someone for dinner or poker night with the guys.

It's not perfect, and the personal sphere far outweighs the professional/career one.
 

Tallulah

Emerging
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Feb 19, 2008
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INTP
I'm not sure how accurate this is but generally I look at whether or not someone is happy to wing it and make it up as they go along.

Yeah, I think so, too. Js generally need a plan from the start. Ps feel uncomfortable having things planned from the start, like it's boxing us in. We need more of a "tentative suggested course of action that can be changed as the situation changes."

A really good way to tell if someone's a J? Plan a vacation with them. The J in them will go NUTS buying travel books, buying supplies and contingency items, acquiring maps, etc. They'll want to leave at 4am so you can get there the same day, and they'll have a schedule for each day's activities. The P will consider the day of travel also a vacation day, and will want to sleep until they wake up, not really caring what time they get there. They might have read up on the place they're going, but they're not going to schedule things--they might have a vague idea of, "We should go to that new theme park, and maybe see that Titanic exhibit while it's there..." but they won't really care when. For a J, the planning of it is half the fun. For the P, planning the vacation takes the fun out of it.
 

entropie

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I've read that P's are much more likely to engage in self-deprecating humor/make themselves the butt of the joke. My experiences tend to confirm this, as well.

haha, nice avatar :D
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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I see a couple of different parameters that define J and P that aren't necessarily related.

J
Certitude in ideas - Thinking in terms of conclusions
Closure oriented - More comfort with decisions being finalized
Organized/Structured
Initiating/Acting onto the world (this might be extroversion EJ in particular)

P
Uncertainty - Thinking in terms of possibilities
Open-ended - More comfortable with options
Unstructured
Responding/Reacting to the world (this might be introversion IP in particular)

I bolded the parts I identify with and see a distinct relationship between them. I've mentioned this before, but I am rather organized because it is the way I remain open to new ideas or even new belonging that go in the closet. The structure is an open-ended system that allows for new acquisitions easily. One can metaphorically throw new stuff into a messy closet (and perhaps know where everything is), but that doesn't allow it to have its most meaningful relationship to what is already there or make it as clear what needs to go. Structure can increase fluidity.

I have had an employer that is my exact opposite, who confuses me on this J-P issue for the same reasons I confuse myself. On the one hand she has the most intense certitude and is forceful in implementing her plans and ideas. Her presence is absolute, intense, no debate, just finality. She would be the extreme J by many estimates. However, she is also intensely random and works best in a highly controlling, yet potentially unstructured scenario. Plans can change quickly. She is comfortable acting on impulse and has stated this. It is a kind of certainty-random pairing that seems extremely J and P at the same time. It separates the exact same two poles I notice in myself, but exists at the opposite end of both.

My point is that on the one hand I find the distinction confusing. The most prominent stereotype of J vs. P is to transplant the Type A and Type B personality assumptions onto it, but neither accounts for everything.
 

Venom

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Feb 10, 2008
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I have had an employer that is my exact opposite, who confuses me on this J-P issue for the same reasons I confuse myself. On the one hand she has the most intense certitude and is forceful in implementing her plans and ideas. Her presence is absolute, intense, no debate, just finality. She would be the extreme J by many estimates. However, she is also intensely random and works best in a highly controlling, yet potentially unstructured scenario. Plans can change quickly. She is comfortable acting on impulse and has stated this. It is a kind of certainty-random pairing that seems extremely J and P at the same time. It separates the exact same two poles I notice in myself, but exists at the opposite end of both.

FOR THE LAST TIME!!! ESXJ IS NOT THE SAME AS ENXJ

ENXJs DO REALLY EXIST!!! I SWEAR! :D
 

ajblaise

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Aug 3, 2008
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I like to think that the subtleties of someone's appearance and mannerisms that work into an overall 'vibe' is sometimes enough to tell if someone is a distinct J or P personality. With moderate personalities, it's harder.
 

anii

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How and whether the shirt is tucked in. Whether the hair looks neat, messy, or intentionally messy.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
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Jul 11, 2007
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ENTP
Some people have a strong J or P preference and some have a slight one. A person with a slight preference can be hard to tell whether they are P or J. On the other hand a strong J:

-speaks with a definite tone.
-has a very planned and intentional look to their appearance.
-likes to plan things out in advance.
-likes to know details spelled out with certainty.
-gets frustrated and upset easily and can take longer to sort out their feelings.
-doesn't appreciate when their plans change suddenly or something unexpected happens.
-tends to be fairly assertive (although extraversion plays a role here too).
-has a subjective outlook, but makes objective decisions.

On the other hand a strong P
-speaks with less certainty using words like "maybe" or "probably".
-has a somewhat unintentional (and sometimes sloppy) look to their appearance.
-likes to keep their options open instead of specifying all of the details in a plan.
-will readily change details in a plan as they go (assuming they have a plan).
-is usually laid back and doesn't get upset easily.
-can adapt quickly to unexpected situations.
-is often unassertive (although introversion can play a role here too).
-has an objective outlook, but makes subjective decisions.
 

alcea rosea

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My observations:
People who are always late of their appointments are most definitely P's.
People who promise to do things but then forget them soon after are most definitely P's.
 

563 740

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Jul 20, 2007
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294
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ENTP
My observations:
People who are always late of their appointments are most definitely P's.
.

Simple test - arrange to meet them somewhere at 10:00 and then purposely show up at 10:15. If you're 15 minutes late, they're J. If you're 15 minutes early, they're P. :D
 

Tiltyred

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Dec 1, 2008
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sx/sp
I see a couple of different parameters that define J and P that aren't necessarily related.

J
Certitude in ideas - Thinking in terms of conclusions
Closure oriented - More comfort with decisions being finalized
Organized/Structured
Initiating/Acting onto the world (this might be extroversion EJ in particular)

P
Uncertainty - Thinking in terms of possibilities
Open-ended - More comfortable with options
Unstructured
Responding/Reacting to the world (this might be introversion IP in particular)

I bolded the parts I identify with and see a distinct relationship between them. I've mentioned this before, but I am rather organized because it is the way I remain open to new ideas or even new belonging that go in the closet. The structure is an open-ended system that allows for new acquisitions easily. One can metaphorically throw new stuff into a messy closet (and perhaps know where everything is), but that doesn't allow it to have its most meaningful relationship to what is already there or make it as clear what needs to go. Structure can increase fluidity.

I have had an employer that is my exact opposite, who confuses me on this J-P issue for the same reasons I confuse myself. On the one hand she has the most intense certitude and is forceful in implementing her plans and ideas. Her presence is absolute, intense, no debate, just finality. She would be the extreme J by many estimates. However, she is also intensely random and works best in a highly controlling, yet potentially unstructured scenario. Plans can change quickly. She is comfortable acting on impulse and has stated this. It is a kind of certainty-random pairing that seems extremely J and P at the same time. It separates the exact same two poles I notice in myself, but exists at the opposite end of both.

My point is that on the one hand I find the distinction confusing. The most prominent stereotype of J vs. P is to transplant the Type A and Type B personality assumptions onto it, but neither accounts for everything.

I can be very like that when the occasion calls for it in my work. It goes really fast and it needs at each point a fast, definite action. It's all J, it's just going fast. I like it because it makes my intuition work really hard. I have to be right in the flow and feeling confidence in my ability to feel at every second how things should be. Like ... white water rafting, maybe. But you have to have a certain level of competence and experience. Another way I think of it is like swinging from vines or like squirrel monkeys leaping from tree to tree. It can go very fast but each jump is a discrete step in the process and is a decision.
 
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