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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Meaning...........we need the J for speed in making up the mind (versus the P), right? And, since this thread is about Sensors (whose 'opposite' is N), my example of SJ versus NJ. I wasn't trying to get to the nitty-gritty of 'speed of decision making' across all types. It was a response to another poster regarding close-mindedness in the SJ, hence, my comparison of NJ. J being the key, not the sensing (or intuition) <-- this was my point.
    I wasn't pointing out the difference between S and N as it being the focal difference (just put that in to explain what Pi is for curious folks who don't know). Hmm, lemme clarify.

    "J" isn't the key for all Js was my point lol. What you're saying would only apply to ENJ and ESJ because they are (Extraverted) Judging types. Je. I was trying to explain that it's different for ISJ and INJ. They're still J by type code only but they are (Introverted) Perceiving types. Pi.

    Follow me now?

  2. #82
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I have a guess as to why this is, aside from what's already been said--

    This place is kind of an escape for many iNtuitives. Since we're a minority in the real world (about 25-30% of the population), we constantly have to live and work in the Sensory world, which is not our natural playing field.

    I am mocked by Sensing friends, family and co-workers in real life constantly for not being attuned to my physical surroundings and the realistic details of the here and now. And since 70-75% of people are Sensors, this is perfectly acceptable in common practice. "LOL look at the stupid NP that can't remember to tie his shoes or put gas in his car."

    And that's perfectly okay, because most people really do find that to be stupid. Yet when I mock someone for lacking iNtuitive abilities, now suddenly I'm an asshole. Why would you expect anyone to understand that shit? Making fun of people for not grasping abstract intuitive systems, wow, what a fucking dick!

    The attitude I get constantly is something to the effect of, "If you're so smart as to understand all this hypothetical bullshit, how can you be so stupid as to not understand basic rules of common courtesy? You must intentionally be an asshole!"

    And without fail, the only people that understand what this is like are other Ns. We don't want to live in the real, tactile, Sensing world most of the time, but we have to, and we're tired of getting shit for not understanding it as well, so we gather here to talk shit about you. That's pretty much it.
    F*#%ing Classic! I love your brutal and direct interpretation of what is apparently an unintentional but widespread, oppressive phenomenon.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    I wasn't pointing out the difference between S and N as it being the focal difference (just put that in to explain what Pi is for curious folks who don't know). Hmm, lemme clarify.

    "J" isn't the key for all Js was my point lol. What you're saying would only apply to ENJ and ESJ because they are (Extraverted) Judging types. Je. I was trying to explain that it's different for ISJ and INJ. They're still J by type code only but they are (Introverted) Perceiving types. Pi.

    Follow me now?

    Heck no!

    Can you just clarify: with regards to Sensors, and especially SJs being close-minded, I replied that I don't think there's any difference in SJs being close-minded versus NJ (so, yes, the S versus N is applicable in this discussion), but that what the person may be referring to was the speed of decision making (which may look like close-mindedness).

    Where am I mistaken in this?

  4. #84
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I think that majority of people are just venting from real life experiances.

  5. #85
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    I feel pre-judged on a regular in everyday life.. for being an intuitive. I don't think that feels too good? That's ok. I usually keep to myself anyway. *shrugs*

  6. #86
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    Nothing about Sensing is inferior, neither its Introverted or Extraverted processes. Nothing should make it seem inferior either but people have this horrible habit of misunderstanding what things mean and then perpetuating that misunderstanding. Yea, I know.

    The forum has more Ns? lol People take type and otherís type and people whoís type they think they know for granted due to some rudimentary understanding. There are probably a lot of mistyped people and people who've been mistyped by them from the whole gamut N S F T J P Z.

    These people who mostly mock the supposedly S/SJ folk feel misunderstood and they place blame on their lack of cohesion with the masses (the SJ ofc), so they super glue their inferiority complexes* onto their heads for all to witness. Capitals N, NF, NT. Occasionally youíll see NP, NJ.

    When in reality, MOST people feel misunderstood at one time or another. Including ye behated Ss. Ssssss. Ssssss. errr Sssorry, havenít slept two nights now.

    If itís not disdain of S or SJ, then itís of the supposedly ice hearted NTs or the disgustingly gooey NFs and so on. (-- when there also exists ice cold NFs and warm NTs but we mostly ignore that) Ban together against a supposed threat or group who seems to be opposite from you and then the next day ban against thy enemyís enemy.

    Iím guessing itís not really N vs S in real life or type, at all. Itís mostly people pitted against ignorance or intolerance. And most people just assume they'd happen to be S.

    But an ignorant and intolerant person is just that. They can be S or N. A person who is well balanced from any type will seem wonderful and tolerant. The difference between a well balanced ESTJ and an unbalanced INFJ. Youíd sooner think the ESTJ was more understanding and emotionally stable. And approachable.

    Look at well known people who've been typed Ns, who succeed in an "SJ" dominated society and are appreciated or praised for their efforts by the masses. By the masses. Masses supposedly constituted by SJs, right? (There's no validating information about type division anyway, just estimates at best. But heeeey, people just believe what they wanna. It's easier to justify their pond of an existence against the big ocean of Life).

    My best friend is an ESTP. Most people she encounters think sheís weird. She thinks Iím weird. Blackcat said it. Weird is an opinion, more so an interpretation. People mostly apply weird to what they donít understand or what they find interesting but donít recognise within themselves.

    * not completely serious. But really, some of you do have it glued to your foreheads. Look in the mirror, the N will be staring back at you...
    Zarc put it perfectly.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Gauche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    On the forum, Intuition is held in high regard, and there's many instances of looking down on Sensors. I understand that the forum has way more intuits than sensors, but, why this prejudice? What about sensing (and its typological defintion) that makes it seem 'less superior' to intuition (as per the commentaries on this board)?
    Once you become N, you understand...

    In no way Im regarding sensors inferior (especially SPs)

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Heck no!

    Can you just clarify: with regards to Sensors, and especially SJs being close-minded, I replied that I don't think there's any difference in SJs being close-minded versus NJ (so, yes, the S versus N is applicable in this discussion), but that what the person may be referring to was the speed of decision making (which may look like close-mindedness).

    Where am I mistaken in this?
    You aren't mistaken except with what I bolded (the second part).

    Kay. I think I see where we've side stepped one another on the yellow brick road to understanding, hopefully... With my first response, I specifically focused on the "greater speed of making up one's mind" which you attribute to "J" for both SJs and NJs. I disregarded the closed-mindedness part, because one, I'd already explained it to ajblaise above here and two, I agreed that I didn't think it's the same as being 'close minded'. I also agree I don't think there's much difference between SJ vs NJ, in terms of how they function. The why (Si/Ni) shows the difference.

    So, what I was trying to do was clarify the differences of SJ and NJ further because Extraverted SJs and NJs are different breeds than their Introverted SJ and NJ pack.

    Let's try again:
    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us
    Now, SJ, like with NJ, or any J, allows for greater speed of making up one's mind
    Attributing "J as the key" or that "it allows greater speed" in making a decision is where I'm trying to show it doesn't work for all Js. Je, Extraverted Judgment, can have greater speed, yes -- but for an EJ (ESJ/ENJ) only. Whereas, it's not the same for an ISJ or INJ, it's the opposite. Why? Because ISJ/INJ are NOT Judging types, they're Perceiving types.

    Ever see an IJ (ISJ INJ) unable to make up their mind, that's when Pi (Si/Ni) gridlocks and refuses to do something through Je (Fe/Te). Coming to a decision or doing anything about it is much slower for an IJ.

    So, it's quicker for EJs, I'm not saying better, but quicker than for IJs.

    Hope I cleared it up. If I'm still not making sense, we can take this to PMs so as not to detract from your thread.

  9. #89
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Zarc put it perfectly.
    Yup, he put it well.

    What's interesting is that so far is that there is very little said anything about prejudice, most of it has focused on stereotypes.

    On the other hand, I got a chance to run a little experiment when I changed from INTP to ISTP; a few others here are not what type they actually are/test as, and a few other things. I had a list from a couple of years back of things I wanted to try - people posting under different accounts, etc. In any case, there is a clear pattern of prejudice, meaning that people change their attitudes depending on the little characters you have next to the name. Regardless of behavior. Lots of forer too, but that's not news.

    But this pattern isn't any different from any situation in which it can develop. Some say they aren't influenced, but are... some say they know they are, but it's ok because it's done to me (which is often questionable in the first place, or mis-attributed), and others rationalize it to avoid any internal disharmony.

    Anyway, intelligence is the core identity for Ns. Since this is the primary axis that defines it, Ns look down on Ss. Typically the play down comes from those that aren't secure with who they are, giving rise to the need to feel superior... and that's the axis to do it with.

  10. #90
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I have a guess as to why this is, aside from what's already been said--

    This place is kind of an escape for many iNtuitives. Since we're a minority in the real world (about 25-30% of the population), we constantly have to live and work in the Sensory world, which is not our natural playing field.

    I am mocked by Sensing friends, family and co-workers in real life constantly for not being attuned to my physical surroundings and the realistic details of the here and now. And since 70-75% of people are Sensors, this is perfectly acceptable in common practice. "LOL look at the stupid NP that can't remember to tie his shoes or put gas in his car."

    And that's perfectly okay, because most people really do find that to be stupid. Yet when I mock someone for lacking iNtuitive abilities, now suddenly I'm an asshole. Why would you expect anyone to understand that shit? Making fun of people for not grasping abstract intuitive systems, wow, what a fucking dick!

    The attitude I get constantly is something to the effect of, "If you're so smart as to understand all this hypothetical bullshit, how can you be so stupid as to not understand basic rules of common courtesy? You must intentionally be an asshole!"

    And without fail, the only people that understand what this is like are other Ns. We don't want to live in the real, tactile, Sensing world most of the time, but we have to, and we're tired of getting shit for not understanding it as well, so we gather here to talk shit about you. That's pretty much it.

    See, now that DOES sound like a victim complex. It's not an inferiority complex, but you are describing this phenomenon on here as if it were a GOOD thing, when it is clearly not.

    That being said, I like being super EJ and 50/50 S vs. N. It seems to confuse some people (online and IRL) greatly, and there are the exact kind of people I like to tweak, i.e., the people who are so convinced that they are "open-minded" that they are actually small-minded jerks.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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